1932 Roadster Frame Rail Sag

SUHRsc

SUHRsc

Well-known member
I noticed that my door gaps are tapered pretty good and someone added shims to make the latches work. The culprit I believe is the rear of the frame is bent down from the kickup, rearward. You can see a noticable budge above the axle. Has anyone else dealt with this somehow without removing the body? I believe this body was never off the frame and I'd prefer not to be the one to do it if I don't have to. Plus it would be nice if there is a solution that doesn't ruin the old (50's) paint. I realize the paint is in bad shape but the inside of the car and much of the chassis has never been painted, so leaving it all look old and grungy together has been my plan. Thanks for any advice.

*This is an early frame that never received the braces in this area.

Zach
 

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Ouch!

People talk about getting it over a railroad track, chaining the high spot to the rail and then blocking on one side and jacking on the other. (I think that this was in reference to Model As that used to sag in the middle. They'd chain on the ends and jack in the middle. They never worried about the frame bending at the rear!)
 
I thought about putting an old repro spreader bar in the back and just letting it hang on jackstands on that bar for a while... I know heating at the bend would be the best solution but I really hate to do that ... Though it may come down to it ...same scinerio, sitting on the spreader bar and just heat the bottom of the kickup till the gap corrects itself. Maybe 1 torch on each side with a bottle jack at the door area to "catch" it ... Repainting a small spot on the frame in that area wouldn't be hugely noticable. Inevitably there will be various repairs throughout the car so maybe I am worrying too much.

PeteVS said:
Ouch!

People talk about getting it over a railroad track, chaining the high spot to the rail and then blocking on one side and jacking on the other. (I think that this was in reference to Model As that used to sag in the middle. They'd chain on the ends and jack in the middle. They never worried about the frame bending at the rear!)
Click to expand...
 
I think it would take more force that you would get from the weight of the car.
I think you need to remove the axle and fabricate a heavy hook that can latch around that lower rail and then using a heavy RSJ or Tubular beam jack at the rear and in front of the axle while resisting upward movement with the fabricated hook. If you were fancy with it you might be able to make something that would work while reaching around the axle.
I did the same to my 32 frame but it was a bare frame.
heat is your friend, and carefully placed hammer blows.
Last saturday's edition of Cold War Motors on YouTube shows Jim's Continental getting similar damage straightened out. that is on a proper frame rack though, but it does show the methods involved.
your other alternative, is to release the rear of the body and shim that up but you will be dealing with a big gap between the tank and the body. not a great look.
FWIW I had to do a similar job on my T-Bird to what they did on the continental. that was done with a big beam, chains and a heavy jack.
It might come down just by hanging from the spreader, it's worth a try in the first instance, and if no good then bring out the heavy equipment.
A good 4 post ramp with wheel free rails would be a godsend.
Mart.
 
In my opinion, the area of the frame that is bent has been "work hardened", and if you attempt to straighten the frame without heat, the corrective measures will bend the frame in an adjacent area. Something to think about.
Tom
 
Thanks everyone, I guess heat is likely going to be the best option. I hate to remove the original bump stops but they may have to go.... I will remove the tank, it is pretty rusty anyways, Luckily I found a similarly painted old black tank that appears clean inside to put in it's place. This whole thing took the wind out of my sails on the car, I was hoping to get the motor back to running condition and just drive it around... That's how it always goes it seems.... In the end it's a neat old 32 Ford so it's still fun to work on....

Thanks!
Zach
 
Can you remove the rear suspension, cut the frame and bend it back to its original contour so the doors fit properly? Then you can "box" the frame on the inside and weld plates on the out side and rails.

The reality is that the body has to be removed from the frame so that the frame can either be replaced or repaired correctly, IMO.
 
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IMHO; I would suggest taking it to a body shop with a frame rack. They would be able to chain & block the frame down where needed & then use hydrauic rams to slowly push on the frame in the places required to straighten the frame back just enough to close the door gap. Then you could add any stiffners or braces to keep it from sagging in the future. In any event a good frame/body shop should be able to look at it & advise you what would be the best way to fix the problem. Or just keep adding shims to get it to where you want the gap to be.
 
A not uncommon fate for many pre-reinforcement '32 frames, especially those with rear mounted spare tires. The combined weight of the spare and a full tank of gas and enough of a bump in the road to cause the rear axle to bottom out on the axle housings which became fulcrums to bend the frame and create bulges at the top of the kick ups.

Door alignment isn't the only problem this condition causes. There is now a serious amount of stress in the rear of your quarter panels and based on the service campaign (recall) that Ford launched in October, 1932, cracks may develop in the area adjacent to the lower back panel. At a minimum, you should undo the two rearmost body-to-frame attachments and substitute a longer bolt with a spring to absorb the stress as was done in the service campaign. If you have a copy of the Early Ford V8 Club's "The 1932 Ford Book", the details of that service campaign and the fix are shown on pages A-2-16-19 and 11-17.

Short of pulling the body off the frame, your best bet would be a shop with serious frame straightening equipment.
 
outlaw said:
IMHO; I would suggest taking it to a body shop with a frame rack. They would be able to chain & block the frame down where needed & then use hydrauic rams to slowly push on the frame in the places required to straighten the frame back just enough to close the door gap. Then you could add any stiffners or braces to keep it from sagging in the future. In any event a good frame/body shop should be able to look at it & advise you what would be the best way to fix the problem. Or just keep adding shims to get it to where you want the gap to be.
Click to expand...

That is what I have done in the past.
 
Thank you everyone.
David, I saw mention of the spring\bolt and had been thinking that would be a good idea, I'm really surprised it's not already cracked there, now.

Thanks!
Zach


DavidG said:
A not uncommon fate for many pre-reinforcement '32 frames, especially those with rear mounted spare tires. The combined weight of the spare and a full tank of gas and enough of a bump in the road to cause the rear axle to bottom out on the axle housings which became fulcrums to bend the frame and create bulges at the top of the kick ups.

Door alignment isn't the only problem this condition causes. There is now a serious amount of stress in the rear of your quarter panels and based on the service campaign (recall) that Ford launched in October, 1932, cracks may develop in the area adjacent to the lower back panel. At a minimum, you should undo the two rearmost body-to-frame attachments and substitute a longer bolt with a spring to absorb the stress as was done in the service campaign. If you have a copy of the Early Ford V8 Club's "The 1932 Ford Book", the details of that service campaign and the fix are shown on pages A-2-16-19 and 11-17.

Short of pulling the body off the frame, your best bet would be a shop with serious frame straightening equipment.
Click to expand...
 
I respectfully disagree. When the back of a 1932 Ford frame is distorted as described it would not produce the door gap problem as pictured. For the doors to be misaligned as pictured the center of the frame would have to have an upward distortion. IMHO the car was at some time driven hard over something like railroad tracks or a very tall speed bump. The first impact was probably at bottom of the center crossmember which bent the frame upward, (door gap problem) as it bounced off the tracks the back of the frame was bent by the hard landing.

Also, just to be clear, a sag or downward distortion in the middle of the frame would produce a wider gap at the bottom of the door opening and a tight gap or contact at the top.
 
Then the frame is perhaps bent in two places, the usual place above the kickups for the rear axle as witnessed by the bulges on the sides of the frame rails at those points and somewhere behind the cowl. What I would look for next to narrow the possibilities would be the pads/webbing beneath the cowl and radiator to confirm that they are originals or the same thickness as the originals and if so, whether the hood side panels have uneven gaps top to bottom either at the front or rear of the panels.


Ultimately, it may be necessary to pull the body off the frame, remove everything attached to the frame and have it checked/straightened on a jig that is '32 frame-specific such as that at the Ionia Hot Rod Shop in Michigan.
 
David G is 100% correct when he says:

"Ultimately, it may be necessary to pull the body off the frame, remove everything attached to the frame and have it checked/straightened on a jig that is '32 frame-specific such as that at the Ionia Hot Rod Shop in Michigan."
 
Check the postings by Neilinca with regards to his 32 pickup build , he did a frame rail straightening posting on his 32 by drilling some anchors in his garage floor, fabbed a couple of simple brackets that provided the means by which he could chain down the rails & provide the needed slowly applied force via a bottle jack.
 
BoxCar Tom said:
I respectfully disagree. When the back of a 1932 Ford frame is distorted as described it would not produce the door gap problem as pictured. For the doors to be misaligned as pictured the center of the frame would have to have an upward distortion. IMHO the car was at some time driven hard over something like railroad tracks or a very tall speed bump. The first impact was probably at bottom of the center crossmember which bent the frame upward, (door gap problem) as it bounced off the tracks the back of the frame was bent by the hard landing.

Also, just to be clear, a sag or downward distortion in the middle of the frame would produce a wider gap at the bottom of the door opening and a tight gap or contact at the top.
Click to expand...

Interesting observation Tom.

I keep looking at the pin striping. It really seems like the frame is bent downward right at the "b" pillar/latch post. The pin striping is showing that part of the body is being pulled downward and back. I would not be surprised with Tom's assessment that the center is slightly peaked upward also.

Think of it this way, it's like when you break spaghetti before you put it in the pot. As you push down on the ends, the top section breaks while the bottom strands stay whole. Your lower gap looks good. Maybe a little tight at the very bottom. It certainly would seem the forces are pulling the top center of the body downward from both ends. That top of the door opening seems like it would be the weakest part of the body.

For this, you'll need to anchor the center of the frame while pushing up on both ends and see what happens. This would be a 2-3 hour job for a body shop and they can control the amount of force being applied to the frame.

I know you like to do things on your own, but for something like this, it may be the way to go. Plus, while on the frame machine, they can pull measurements to identify where and exactly how much the frame is bent.
 
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Put it on axle stands mounted on the frame , on a flat floor then get someone to supple equivalent measurements rails to the ground of there car , measure the body from body mount bolts etc to the cowl ,height of body at different points ,then compare them .Cowl front diagonal down to a rivet on the front of the Chassis rail ,You may get the measurements from the net .
 
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