1931 Ford 180-A Phaeton

Yellowfordcoupe

Yellowfordcoupe

Senior Member
I've bought a 1931 Ford 180-A Phaeton from a guy in Oregon in February this year. The car is fully restored, but came without a title. To get it shipped out the USA it must be titled. I got a new title from a DMV consultant in LA, California. He issued it with the date 2010. Now I have a problem to get it historic licensed in Germany, because the car is a 2010 car for them and it has to be licensed in the USA or whereever for at least 30 years to get this status. Have anybody a idea what to do, to get informations about hat car. I tried the email address of the guy I bought the car, but didn't come through and unfortunately lost the telephone number of him. He got me a Name and adress of a other guy he bought the car from, but on his number also no access. The car must be from Argentinia and I'm sure it'll be hard to get the informations the German DMV wants from me. Hate, that some guys cheat other guys with the same interests. Sorry, but I'm really upset.
 
If you knew you were going to ship the car out of the country, why would you ever consider buying a car without a title? I hate to sound harsh but you have no one to blame but yourself, you didn't ask the right questions before buying it. I can't see where you got cheated. If you required a title, and the owner couldn't give it to you at the time of the sale, you had every chance to walk away from the deal.

Even if you weren't shipping it out of the country, buying an untitled car is risky at best. It's the PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. If Oregon doesn't issue titles, again you should have asked that, because having a title was important to you.

I think you figured you got a car cheap, you'd get a mail-order title, and everything would be wonderful. Instead, you didn't know what you were doing, didn't research the finer points of German law, didn't anticipate the problems you were creating for yourself, and now you regret it. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
 
Another idea might be to contact the Oregon Model A Clubs and see if they recognize the guy's name -- or send a photo to see if they recognize the car. You can find the Oregon MAFCA clubs by going to MAFCA.com and then go to chapters. It's worth a try.
 
Depending on how much was traded I'm sure the guy going to get in touch with you,you might want to go on ebay there always someone trying to sell titles there. but this might open a new can of worms, i am sure a 180 did not go cheap so buy the time you read this you will probably heard from him now
 
That is very risky buying a car without a title and wanting to ship it out of the country? How do you know this car was not stolen?
I would have it checked out,let the law find out where it came from and past history.The could find out easy.
 
Do you have a Bill of Sale at least? Does Germany recognize Bills of Sale? I'm no lawyer (but I play one on TV), but the Bill of Sale "guarantees" the transaction, the Title "guarantees" the individual piece of property.

I guess you'll need a lawyer. We complain about them, but when we feel threatened, the first thing we do is scream "lawyer" and run to them to fix things.

Can you post any pictures? 180A is my dream car.
 
Dave / Franklin MA said:
If you knew you were going to ship the car out of the country, why would you ever consider buying a car without a title? I hate to sound harsh but you have no one to blame but yourself, you didn't ask the right questions before buying it. I can't see where you got cheated. If you required a title, and the owner couldn't give it to you at the time of the sale, you had every chance to walk away from the deal.

Even if you weren't shipping it out of the country, buying an untitled car is risky at best. It's the PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. If Oregon doesn't issue titles, again you should have asked that, because having a title was important to you.

I think you figured you got a car cheap, you'd get a mail-order title, and everything would be wonderful. Instead, you didn't know what you were doing, didn't research the finer points of German law, didn't anticipate the problems you were creating for yourself, and now you regret it. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
Click to expand...


Okay, you're right in this point I should had asked this question about the title. I not have thought it could be that there is no title, that may be a little bid blue eyed. I didn't want to blame anybody, but it could be some to put in the sales add, if a car don't have a title.

I don't go back from this deal, because the missing title problem comes in LA as the car was at the harbour to get shipped out of the USA.

If I ever where buing a other car in a foreign country my first question is to send a picture from the title.

German laws are somthing stupid sometimes, that's one of the main problems, right behind the problem to don't ask the right questions, okay you're right.

And the 180-A wasn't a snap as you think, but it looked so good.

I find out the telephone number of the guy who sells it and I'll get his new email address.

Thanks for your help to bring me back to earth.
 
Selling a car to Europe is easy but you need A TITLE and BILL of SALE.

Title is used on both sides (USA-Europe) to verify that the car is honestly obtained.

Is this the same car we talked about in February??

Never buy a car without "A" Title.
 
Joop said:
Selling a car to Europe is easy but you need A TITLE and BILL of SALE.

Title is used on both sides (USA-Europe) to verify that the car is honestly obtained.

Is this the same car we talked about in February??

Never buy a car without "A" Title.
Click to expand...


Yes, it is. The problem is, that I need the day of first registration and it is a true problem to get this for a car that is nearly 80 years old. I now have sent a statutory declaration to the seller of the car, that he also bought the car with a bill of sale only and it is totally unknown, when the car has had his first registration. The problem is, that your cars first registration has to be older than 30 years to get it registred.
What a mess.
 
This is Monday morning quarterbacking.
But the seller should have gotten you a Title with the bill of sale he had.
 
JTW said:
What does German law say about "Assembled from Parts" ?
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I don't know, but I'll check. The problem is, that I got some papers from the German customers, that I've imported a 1931 Ford Phaeton (not a parts car) and this papers I need at the registration. I don't know how it works, when I import a car in parts as a restoration object. I'll ask them. Don't know why they are so stupid and don't see that a car that is nearly 80th years old don't have all papers it got through the whole life.
 
Original title for a 1931 Ford Phaeton in Germany (photos)

Alex,

What you need is one of these ;) :
German1931Phaetontitlecover.jpg


German1931Phaetontitleinside.jpg


For all the linguistically challenged, this is what an original car title looks like for a 1931 Ford "four seater cabriolet" (i.e. a Phaeton most likely). It looks like this one was first used in 1936 and was a document intended to title cars that were first put on the road before 1934 (according to the fine print on the front cover). Note also that the manufacturer is listed as "Ford Motor Company Köln am Rhein" (Cologne on the Rhein river) so this title was for a German made Model A from the factory in Cologne.

Fordially,
Brad in Germany
 
Brad In Germany ......................
I know it's different, but I have a WWII German Military logbook of a 1938 Ford, used in WWII.
They really documented everything throughly !
The soldiers had to write down The Run Sequence No., The Date, The Time, The Place Name, Kilometers at Departure, The Departure Time, Travel Route, Technical - Fuel, etc., Time of Release, Return Time, Kilometers Driven, Signature of Leader and Remarks.
This book covers from 12-21-44 to 1-16-45.
MIKE :)
 

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Title or "NO" title if i come across a Model "A" unrestored 180A , TownCar /TownCar Delivery , 2 or 3 engine number "A" or even a 400A with the top down cheap,, its on its way to my house.I'll worry about getting a title later...:D l.o.l. Bill of sale is good for me with a NOTARIE -PUBLIC stamp.:cool:
 
YellowFordcoup. I feel your pain I just made a long trip to Canada pulling a 25 foot trailer only to find out the dealer was not telling me the truth I asked all the questions that I thought were necessary including is the car all steel with no fiberglass. as it turned out the car had fiberglass in three sections and they still wanted $26,900 for a 1931 Victoria, I'm still looking for a car the 1931 Ford 180 a Phaeton would be ideal for me. if you would be willing to sell me the car to get you out of the trouble maybe that would work for you?
 
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