ok guys I am stumped! I have completely rebuilt the steering sector on my 29 too get rid of the play in the steering wheel! got it all done & back in the car & I still have 3" or so movement in the steering wheel, going straight ahead & it can not be adjusted out with the cross shaft adjustment. it has all new bushings, bearings, new worm gear & all new seals, the pitman arm has been shortened 1 1/2" for easier steering. the steering box it's self is in good shape! that I can tell there is no reason that it would have any slack in it! HELP!!
1929 steering sector problem
- Thread starter pinball73
- Start date
Kurt in NJ
Well-known member
Were the sector bushings reamed-- honed to size?
End thrust adjusted for both worm, sector
End thrust adjusted for both worm, sector
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
Firstly, is this a seven-tooth or two-tooth steering unit? I can't tell from your description. Both designs were available in 1929, the two-tooth design being introduced about May or June, depending upon the assembly plant. It DOES make a difference which unit you have because more adjustments are possible with a two-tooth design. Advice will be different for each unit.
Until you supply an answer, try this: disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm. While someone holds the pitman arm firmly, turn the steering wheel back and forth at the top of its travel. If the pitman arm moves at the same time and in unison when the steering wheel is rocked back and forth, the problem is not in the steering box. Wiggle the pitman arm in the middle of its travel from lock to lock. A little free play is acceptable (but not ideal). If the pitman arm can be moved back and forth noticeably, something's wrong inside the unit or if it's a two-tooth design, the three in-car adjustments need to be made.
However, if the steering wheel can be moved back and forth, yet the helper can hold the pitman arm still, the problem lies inside the steering box. Perhaps the new worm gear is slipping on the shaft or a part was forgotten. Go back inside the box and find out where the slop is originating. If you hadn't put in new parts and this were a seven-tooth unit, I would suspect broken sector teeth. A friend traded for a '29 Tudor that had almost half a revolution free play at the steering wheel. SCARY to drive! Upon disassembly, I discovered a couple broken sector teeth were causing the slop.
Anyway, assuming your pitman arm moves at the same time as the steering wheel is turned, the slop in your steering lies between the pitman arm and the rest of the components. Check whether the remaining three steering arm balls are round or are oblong/egg-shaped (the one on your new shortened pitman arm should be nice and round). Ensure before doing this that the drag link and tie rod end plugs are adjusted properly so that with some effort, you can rotate the shafts with one hand. If either shaft is too easy to rotate or cannot be rotated by one hand, the end plugs need adjusting.
Check these things out first before going deeper.
Marshall
Until you supply an answer, try this: disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm. While someone holds the pitman arm firmly, turn the steering wheel back and forth at the top of its travel. If the pitman arm moves at the same time and in unison when the steering wheel is rocked back and forth, the problem is not in the steering box. Wiggle the pitman arm in the middle of its travel from lock to lock. A little free play is acceptable (but not ideal). If the pitman arm can be moved back and forth noticeably, something's wrong inside the unit or if it's a two-tooth design, the three in-car adjustments need to be made.
However, if the steering wheel can be moved back and forth, yet the helper can hold the pitman arm still, the problem lies inside the steering box. Perhaps the new worm gear is slipping on the shaft or a part was forgotten. Go back inside the box and find out where the slop is originating. If you hadn't put in new parts and this were a seven-tooth unit, I would suspect broken sector teeth. A friend traded for a '29 Tudor that had almost half a revolution free play at the steering wheel. SCARY to drive! Upon disassembly, I discovered a couple broken sector teeth were causing the slop.
Anyway, assuming your pitman arm moves at the same time as the steering wheel is turned, the slop in your steering lies between the pitman arm and the rest of the components. Check whether the remaining three steering arm balls are round or are oblong/egg-shaped (the one on your new shortened pitman arm should be nice and round). Ensure before doing this that the drag link and tie rod end plugs are adjusted properly so that with some effort, you can rotate the shafts with one hand. If either shaft is too easy to rotate or cannot be rotated by one hand, the end plugs need adjusting.
Check these things out first before going deeper.
Marshall
thanks for the reply Marshall! I forgot to tell that it is a seven tooth sector! with the pitman arm off as you Sayed you can get just a tad bit of movement! if you tighten the cross shaft adjustment down you get a tight place in the middle, as is to be expected! the one thing you mentioned is the fit of the worm gear on the steering shaft! I did not check to see if the splines were worn specifically, but I am shore I would have caught it! but that is a possibility I may need too look into. it has got too be something abnormal, that I am not catching
yes the bushings on the cross shaft were honed too fit! & the sector shaft fit the new bushings very good
denniskliesen
Well-known member
You can't do a whole lot with 7 tooth gear boxes as far as adjustment. Do you have any end play in the steering shaft? It should not even be moving up and down. There are originally shims at the bottom between the lower bearing assembly and the gear box. If you bought a repop to use there it most likely will not fit, a lot of them were machined wrong. I'd take the drag link of the pitman arm and moving it fore and aft there should be very little play with the steering wheel in the center position, Count revolutions on the steering wheel from complete left to complete right and turn the wheel back to half way from either stop. Even if your gears don't look worn that much, it's possible they are worn beyond being able to get them adjusted for little to no play. There are more things to check but try these first and post back.
john charlton
Well-known member
As you know there are only 2 adjustments on the 7 tooth . End float on the shaft adjusted by the brass shims on the bottom and end float on the sector shaft with the adjuster on the cover . Our local Model A shop makes an offset bush to fit in the housing to to give a third adjustment for tooth mesh .It is machined for a slip fit and after adjusting by rotation it is glued in place with industrial "Loctite"They have done many of these over the years before RHD parts were available . No failures ever recorded.
John in sunny Suffolk County England.
John in sunny Suffolk County England.
denniskliesen
Well-known member
John you mentioned "Our local Model A shop", is that in England or Arizona? Bushing on sector shaft or steering shaft? Just one bushing or a pair?
john charlton
Well-known member
This is done in England by Belcher Engineering ( check them out on Google).A one piece bush is made and is the sector shaft bushing not the steering shaft .
John
John
denniskliesen
Well-known member
Interesting and sounds like a good fix to remove gear lash for even new gears and bushings.
well guys! I have not taken it apart yet but I really think the problem has to be the worm gear is loose on the steering shaft, I have done every thing else from the king pins back up to the sector & still have 3 ish inches of free play in the steering wheel . it just about has too be that. I can't believe I had it apart at least two times & missed this. going to drive it till cold weather & out it comes again. will let you know what! if anything I find. thanks for the help guys
SAJ
Well-known member
Remember a shortened Pittman arm needs more movement of the steering wheel for the same draglink movement. So the slack in the steering wheel is magnified by the difference in steering ratio. This makes if a little harder to minimise slack at the wheel when you shorten the Pitman. This applies to any slack or flexure in the steering between wheels and steering box
SAJ
SAJ
Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
I think that the problem is so simple that you probably won't even try this . Usually the problem is that the pitman arm hasn't been properly tightened where it connects to the sector . Just a few thousants of looseness between the pitman arm and the sector will result in inches of play at the steering wheel . I use a six point socket and a long 1/2 inch drive pull handle to tighten the nut on the bolt that holds the pitman arm to the sector . Youneed tro really bow up when tightening this nut . Try this before you start tearing things down ,this can save you a lot of work. The worse that could happen would be a stripped bolt or nut. I've never stripped a pitman arm bolt
yes I did! but would you believe when I got the car & started going thru every thing on it I found that some one had been there before me & the worm gear was put in upside down! the grove for the keeper in the bottom of the worm gear was on top & the end plate was squeezed up so tight that you could hardly turn the steering wheel.
Brobrian
Senior Member
Okay, i’ve done this whole thing too on my ‘28 with 7-tooth. Two things that were factors for me that haven’t been mentioned: On my care the bushing on the end of the steering column shaft was worn terribly. Perhaps you checked it when you rebuilt your box. And once when I was at the end of my rope I’d found that the two bolts that hold the steering gear box to the frame had not stayed tight. Just throwing things out there. Good hunting.