1929 4dr?

Hi Brent,
The car you are looking at is a Briggs Standard Fordor and looks like a nice car! Here is a picture of a Murray bodied Fordor of the late Dave Lopes collection here in California. As you can see, they are a really wonderful model! Good luck. I think you should go for it.
 

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What has been pictured is a very stock (except for headlight buckets) 1929 Briggs 165B "Standard" sedan. Here is a picture of my 1929 Briggs 155B Town Sedan which a "deluxe" version of the sedan in question. Gar Williams
 

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Welcome Brent,

As Gary and Gar have noted, it's a 1929 model 165-B which is a Standard Fordor with a Briggs built body. It looks like a very nice car. However looks CAN be deceiving. The pic below is for the 1930 version which is essentially identical except for the cowl. The wood frame actually is the body structure. It can get pretty bad and most of these that get torn down to replace the wood never get put back together.

Now that I've maybe scared you a little, it doesn't mean step aside. It looks like it's quite nice and maybe the bad wood is limited. The doors are similarly wood framed. If the doors resist twisting that will be a fair sign. If it turns out to be worse than expected I would definitely choose to focus on mechanical stuff and enjoy it as is for the most part.

155d-wood-2.jpg
 
One final thought, be sure the number on the paperwork matches the number on the car. The number on the car might be an ID plate installed on the door jam by the state DMV, the motor number, or the frame number that is located under the front left corner of the body. Yes under, you have to unbolt and life the body to see the frame number. Don't settle for the body tag on the firewall or some phony VIN tag from EBAY.

Charlie Stephens
 
skawars1 said:
Are titles even available for these cars? And what is a general price for an unrestored one?
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As mentioned above, the Model A VIN (actually a serial number) should be stamped on the frame rail under the left front corner of the body. If the engine is original, the same number should be stamped on the left side of the block just below the head. IL is a title state although they do not require VIN inspection on transfer, unless that has changed recently. That said, I would not buy the car unless it has a title in the seller's name and the VIN on the title matches the number on the car.

It seems the consensus on price is $5K and artdeco's rough estimate for restoration is $12K. You may not be in it to make money but, to keep things in perspective, I think you'd be doing good to sell it for what you'd have in it. Another thing to keep in mind is that IL collects tax on private sales. In this case, that will be only $25 if the purchase price is under $15K. It would be foolish to pay anywhere near that but if you did, the tax would be $750 - $1500 depending on price. Finally, IL requires liability insurance and has several license plate categories.

As for anonymity and web safety, I completely agree. There are some good folks on this forum and I can understand how they might interpret anonymity as lack of trust or having something to hide. But this forum can be read by anybody, anytime, anywhere and some of them may be not-so-good folks. And no, although I know a little about IL vehicle transactions, I ain't there! :D
 
Wow. You guys are quite a knowledgeable group. I have learned allot very quickly. Looks like there is not a clear title for the car. So we decided to pass on it. Too bad since it looked like a fun project. Something way different than the 50s "chrome tank" I had before. Thank you all for your help.
B
 
Looks like a Briggs body, the top of the windows are straight across . It does not have cowl lights. so it does not appear to be a town sedan, just a 4 door.
 
Charlie Stephens said:
Brent,

Now that I have your location I know that I can't help on the title question. Hopefully someone in the same state you are in will answer. My suggestion would be to contact your state motor vehicle department. In most states cars without a title are a real mess and the purchase price is usually reduced accordingly. Usually if the person just lost the title and it was registered in their name they can easily request a duplicate title.

Charlie Stephens
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I live in Illinois. The real down state Illinois near St. Louis. I can tell you that if there are any title concerns with this car do not buy it. The Illinois Secretary of State will not help you with title work if the title is lost or the car does not have a title. Springfield will only do a title search for the past 10 years and beyond that they will not help you. This state is not antique car friendly. Illinois has no money and they don't have the resources or competent personell that will help with complicated title work. Just make sure you have a current, valid title before you buy. They will not recognize old titles or titles that are not current even if it matches your vehicle.
 
There are lots of Model A's around. A friend of mine bought a 1931 Fordor for $6500 a few years ago. Mechanically it was great (restored) with rebuilt engine. The body, paint, and interior were very amateur but presentable as a driver with a little touching up. We had to do a little re-work on the engine, but after that is was a car you could drive anywhere and not be ashamed of it. Good handling, good brakes, cruise 50-mph no problem. Great roomy car for extended tours.
 
Seth Swoboda said:
The Illinois Secretary of State will not help you
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Ya got that right! Jesse spends too much time drumming up organ donations and not enough doing his job. I used to deal with the office in the town that sounds like a bubbly wine - they were unfriendly even before the state went broke. Course, a lot depends on the clerk you get and sometimes a smaller, less busy office is more helpful, but still don't expect much.
 
skawars1 said:
Wow. You guys are quite a knowledgeable group. I have learned allot very quickly. Looks like there is not a clear title for the car. So we decided to pass on it. Too bad since it looked like a fun project. Something way different than the 50s "chrome tank" I had before. Thank you all for your help.
B
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If the price is right and the wood is OK I wouldn't let the title stop the purchase. I bought several cars without titles. My 29 and 31 Model A's cost $250 each to get the title and tax paid.
 
In Minnesota its pretty easy to get a title. "Sell" the car to a friend in Minnesota, have him register it here, then "sell" it back to you in Illinois. Its not even illegal as long as you pay the taxes for both transactions.
 
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