130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.
- Thread starter Rowdy
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Tudortomnz
Well-known member
I can not recall hard evidence for Briggs providing a rear door kit to convert a Tudor in the Model A era, but Dave Rehor [ The 1932 Ford Book, early V8 Club] has this information for the Sedan Delivery done in late 1932 when Ford appeared reluctant to supply a Sedan Delivery. Also I have pictures provided by Bick of a '33 '34 Tudor by Ford Canada with a description of the rear door conversion by Briggs.
Hopefully Bick will put these pics up [ I have given up trying to post photos here] but I do now recall reading that a fleet of Tudors converted to deliveries in 1928 by the Milwaukee City Council were done by Briggs. There was someone who owned one of these Milwaukee Deliveries on this site, he put up photos & that was probably where I read it. I have a picture of one of these US Tudor Deliveries in my file.
Hopefully Bick will put these pics up [ I have given up trying to post photos here] but I do now recall reading that a fleet of Tudors converted to deliveries in 1928 by the Milwaukee City Council were done by Briggs. There was someone who owned one of these Milwaukee Deliveries on this site, he put up photos & that was probably where I read it. I have a picture of one of these US Tudor Deliveries in my file.
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Dennis Haag
Member
Hello, I have the delivery conversion that the city of Milwaukee had. I presumed the conversion was a Briggs from a picture in a early Restorer magazine. After seeing the Budd conversion I am not sure. There was also a insert for the window area offered for displaying products. I have not started to restore this vehicle and I am hoping to find more information. Milwaukee still has purchase req's on file which may shed some light on the vehicle. Talking with a retired supervisor with the DPW He remembers these vehicles and were used into the early 50's. I am hoping to start this project next year. Nice posts very interesting. I have posted pictures in past posts.
I have been following this thread since it started but until Briggs was mentioned I didn't want to post, as I thought the information I had might be wrong. Sorensen, in his "The Commercial Fords" opens the chapter on Sedan Deliveries with these comments; Jewel Tea came calling on Ford with a proposal to purchase several hundred delivery cars with a door in back. Having found Model T sedans to be handy delivery cars Jewel's fleet man felt by eliminating the rear seat and adding a rear door the perfect vehicle could be had.
Briggs was contacted almost immediately and a proposal was drawn up to take a few Tudors and work up some samples and cost estimates on a back door conversion. The idea would be to simply block out the rear side windows, add the load deck and cut the back panel and construct a door. Briggs at the time owned LeBaron and it was LB craftsmen that finalized the details and produced the first body for approval. Jewel liked it and Ford authorized production to begin, with bodies being shipped to assembly plants in November 1928 to be dropped on regular production Model A chassis and shipped as 1929 models.
Sorensen commented that by the time 1929 production had ended more than 7000 were on the road. It is here I think the story must be annotated because of the photos provided by Vince. Did LB build the 200 Jewel SD's, but then the contract went to Budd to produce stampings and assembled bodies for regular Ford sales, as compared to the initial Jewel purchase order?
Moving on in time in 1932 Jewel and other firms could not buy the Ford SD, it had been replaced by the larger Panel Delivery. Drivers found them to be "unbearably hot" compared to the car based delivery and further many cities did not allow trucks on boulevards so some deliveries could not be accomplished by the truck based Panel Delivery. Chicago to this day has a commercial truck ban on boulevards.
Seeing orders go to Chevrolet Ford surveyed it's dealers for potential sales and decided to have LeBaron convert Tudors again with Iron Mountain to produce the wood components. Production began on Sept. 26, 1932, so consequently less than 500 '32 were built. For 1933 through 1940, according to Sorensen, even though Ford built it's own bodies Briggs built the deliveries not as made over Tudors but with uniquely built coachwork.
I have no idea if Lorin Sorensen was right or wrong but this information might lead to further research that will confirm the Briggs/LeBaron side of the story.
Briggs was contacted almost immediately and a proposal was drawn up to take a few Tudors and work up some samples and cost estimates on a back door conversion. The idea would be to simply block out the rear side windows, add the load deck and cut the back panel and construct a door. Briggs at the time owned LeBaron and it was LB craftsmen that finalized the details and produced the first body for approval. Jewel liked it and Ford authorized production to begin, with bodies being shipped to assembly plants in November 1928 to be dropped on regular production Model A chassis and shipped as 1929 models.
Sorensen commented that by the time 1929 production had ended more than 7000 were on the road. It is here I think the story must be annotated because of the photos provided by Vince. Did LB build the 200 Jewel SD's, but then the contract went to Budd to produce stampings and assembled bodies for regular Ford sales, as compared to the initial Jewel purchase order?
Moving on in time in 1932 Jewel and other firms could not buy the Ford SD, it had been replaced by the larger Panel Delivery. Drivers found them to be "unbearably hot" compared to the car based delivery and further many cities did not allow trucks on boulevards so some deliveries could not be accomplished by the truck based Panel Delivery. Chicago to this day has a commercial truck ban on boulevards.
Seeing orders go to Chevrolet Ford surveyed it's dealers for potential sales and decided to have LeBaron convert Tudors again with Iron Mountain to produce the wood components. Production began on Sept. 26, 1932, so consequently less than 500 '32 were built. For 1933 through 1940, according to Sorensen, even though Ford built it's own bodies Briggs built the deliveries not as made over Tudors but with uniquely built coachwork.
I have no idea if Lorin Sorensen was right or wrong but this information might lead to further research that will confirm the Briggs/LeBaron side of the story.
Rowdy
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I think I remember reading this article several years ago and would have to dig to find it. I wish he would have mentioned his source. It seems possible that the transition from Briggs modifications and Budd's full production models could explain the parts drawing changes in Dec. of 28. As far as the rear door and panel wood it is a near wholesale change. I really need to do a comparison as some of the story is the changes within the whole assembly. Just some thoughts from someone who worked in manufacturing for 18 years. Seemed every supplier change began or ended with blue print changes.
If this is the case it also begs the question. Did Briggs continue to provide the wood and hardware to Budd? Since Budd seems to be mainly focused on metal construction and stamping. This would make sence to me, but may not seem rational to others.Rod
If this is the case it also begs the question. Did Briggs continue to provide the wood and hardware to Budd? Since Budd seems to be mainly focused on metal construction and stamping. This would make sence to me, but may not seem rational to others.Rod
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Rowdy
BANNED
Not yet. It will not be until next year sometime that I will be able to go to the Benson. Since I do not know exactly what I am looking for to this point I do not know what to ask for. I presume the info will be in corespondence between Ford and Budd and possibly Briggs. I think going there will be more productive than paying them a fee per hour and coming out with nothing. Rod
CarlG
Well-known member
Apparently someone makes a kit for doing this:
http://webrodder.com/article/model-a-sedan-conversion-to-sedan-delivery-24
Rowdy
BANNED
The modern kit is fiberglass. The one sold in the 30's was steel. I think I seen the advertisement for it in a 1932 or 1933 edition of Automobile Digest. I would have to call the friend of mine that has the collection and see if I can borrow them to see who made and/or sold them. Rod
Bick in New Zealand
Well-known member
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
I thought I read on here a couple years ago that the sedan delivery had a body a few inches longer than the Tudor car. Or, maybe it was just the window blankout panel was a few inches longer than the car window opening?
Rowdy
BANNED
The add panel of the production 130-A made by Budd is longer than the quarter window of the tudor. I believe the pictures are on Ahooga. However the conversion made by Briggs etc often were just a back panel with door and a floor kit that could be bolted in the tudor once the rear seat and riser were removed. Unless there is more to this than what I understand. Filling in the window with riveted panels and some lead filler would have been easy to complete the look. I have a lot to look for to try to get the full story. So it will take me a good while with my limited budget and possibly absence of a paper trail after this many years. Rod
Tudortomnz
Well-known member
Rowdy you are right in the description of Tudor Delivery [ a conversion] & the Ford Deluxe Delivery which had a longer rear side panel where the Tudor window is. The DD. has the longer rain guttering which is obvious against the look of the Tudor gutter, roof fabric & window edge. The Tudor conversions usually have operating side windows or else filled with board although one has appeared on this site from Sth America with metal over the openings & one I know here had metal put in when it became a rod.
The pic. Bick posted appears to be a regular Deluxe Delivery to me, [ except for the side display board] unless it is some rare prototype with lead filled rear body joins & side opening windows!
The pic. Bick posted appears to be a regular Deluxe Delivery to me, [ except for the side display board] unless it is some rare prototype with lead filled rear body joins & side opening windows!
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Rowdy
BANNED
Tom, you are correct, but to me the add panel looks more like a window in this pic. Maybe its my monitor, but the length looks very close to a regular 130-A. Does anyone have any Ford documentation of the Briggs conversion? It appears based on where most of these photo's were taken that it was mainly for the foreign markets. I could not locate the picture of the difference in Ahooga's Picture Gallery, so here are some pic's that show the difference in length. When I take my DD body back apart I will try to duplicate the picture of the difference side by side. Thanks Rod
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Brad in Germany
Well-known member
Here's the one from Germany that I posted in 2011 (note the window crank handle):
Fordially,
Brad in Germany (now in Maryland)
Fordially,
Brad in Germany (now in Maryland)
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
This truck's rear and side panel construction is not at all like a 130-A. There is no joint, and also the door top and drip rail construction is all different. The door window also appears smaller.
Also note the T handle shape and location as well - different.
Rod can certainly clarify, and correct me if I am wrong.
Also the rear door has 4 hinges
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
What about Sedan Deliveries
Rowdy
BANNED
These are all interesting. However I would love to see some Ford documentation showing Briggs supplied them. Even aftermarket advertising would be fun to throw into the mix. Is there anything in the foreign markets Ford part books showing this for sale as a kit? Thinking that some coach works overseas made their own versions to add to the Budd made tudor. After looking at Brads on my monitor it does seem to have an odd looking floor. Thanks Rod
Tudortomnz
Well-known member
I have a picture of the 1930 '31 Tudor Commercial Delivery as available here in NZ.
It is from the NZ Truck catalogue of Colonial Motor Co.NZ, distributors for Ford Canada before Ford NZ establishment in 1936.
I will try & put it up here, but I do not find the system easy .
They had wooden floors similar to the DD. The model was exactly the same as Brads German pic, even the rear door, which is hinged correctly for RHD. There is belief that these were done thru Colonial , but I have my doubts. A few may well have been done in later years, as it was known to have been done by local body firms [ eg. Steel Bros. in CHCH].
The new price was the same as a Tudor, so how did they make a profit on all the conversion work?
Bick has put the NZ Catalogue C. Tudor picture up here on previous discussions of this topic.
It is from the NZ Truck catalogue of Colonial Motor Co.NZ, distributors for Ford Canada before Ford NZ establishment in 1936.
I will try & put it up here, but I do not find the system easy .
They had wooden floors similar to the DD. The model was exactly the same as Brads German pic, even the rear door, which is hinged correctly for RHD. There is belief that these were done thru Colonial , but I have my doubts. A few may well have been done in later years, as it was known to have been done by local body firms [ eg. Steel Bros. in CHCH].
The new price was the same as a Tudor, so how did they make a profit on all the conversion work?
Bick has put the NZ Catalogue C. Tudor picture up here on previous discussions of this topic.
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