Copper head gasket and oversize intake valves

KMeredith87

KMeredith87

Senior Member
So I took the head off of my pick up and found the modern style head gasket blown. Intended on having the bead trued prior to re-install but got in a hurry and pressed for time and didn't do so. However, I put it back together with a copper head gasket, was supposed to be a felpro but I did not see the typical felpro stamp in it so I have my doubts. Started it up, ran fine, drove it around 5 miles and lost all power and it wouldn't start back up. As it got put on the tow truck to come up I noticed water pouring out of the exhaust. I checked the fit prior to installation and everything looked good and didn't look like a fitment or clearance issue. Upon removing the head and inspection of the gasket it appears at least two of my intake valves struck the gasket and broke out some of the core material. I have oversize modern style intake valves, I believe 1.75 if I remember correctly. Has anyone had this problem before. Did the gasket slip? Would it be in my interest to put a modern style back on? Suggestions? I've read a lot about modern style vs copper and that's not really my concern here just trying to figure out what has the best fit for my application. Thanks!
 
KMeredith87 said:
So I took the head off of my pick up and found the modern style head gasket blown. Intended on having the bead trued prior to re-install but got in a hurry and pressed for time and didn't do so. However, I put it back together with a copper head gasket, was supposed to be a felpro but I did not see the typical felpro stamp in it so I have my doubts. Started it up, ran fine, drove it around 5 miles and lost all power and it wouldn't start back up. As it got put on the tow truck to come up I noticed water pouring out of the exhaust. I checked the fit prior to installation and everything looked good and didn't look like a fitment or clearance issue. Upon removing the head and inspection of the gasket it appears at least two of my intake valves struck the gasket and broke out some of the core material. I have oversize modern style intake valves, I believe 1.75 if I remember correctly. Has anyone had this problem before. Did the gasket slip? Would it be in my interest to put a modern style back on? Suggestions? I've read a lot about modern style vs copper and that's not really my concern here just trying to figure out what has the best fit for my application. Thanks!
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Thanks for sharing :), as I am assembling a .0125 over B now ! I've checked out a couple BEST gaskets. I think that the one that I might be using/decided on, is a 509 copper. My intake valves are same size as yours, at 1.75". I put this copper gasket on both head (super Winfield 8:1)and on block to check all clearances. I am happy to note that all looked pretty good. I've learned here to use dowels to locate the gasket for checking. I use copper coat liberally, letting both side get tacky, so that the gasket stays where put !
However, that said, I am thinking of acquiring a SOLID copper head gasket of exacting size for this B. When I think of using a fairly high cr head and all the work and $ that I've expended getting it to the current condition...the extra $ to ensure no problems, seems like good investment..no ?
 
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This area around the valves is 1 of the main differences between the A and the B model heads
the B has more open area around the rear of the valve good for flow
B gaskets should have more clearance around the valve
how ever some B gaskets today are not much different to A models in this important area
Try and find a older B gasket (copper) it will have plenty of clearance
 
hardtimes said:
Thanks for sharing :), as I am assembling a .0125 over B now ! I've checked out a couple BEST gaskets. I think that the one that I might be using/decided on, is a 503 (if I remember without going out to check at this time). My intake valves are same size as yours, at 1.75". I put this copper gasket on both head (super Winfield 8:1)and on block to check all clearances. I am happy to note that all looked pretty good. I've learned here to use dowels to locate the gasket for checking. I use copper coat liberally, letting both side get tacky, so that the gasket stays where put !
However, that said, I am thinking of acquiring a SOLID copper head gasket of exacting size for this B. When I think of using a fairly high cr head and all the work and $ that I've expended getting it to the current condition...the extra $ to ensure no problems, seems like good investment..no ?
Click to expand...

Rick,

Solid copper gaskets are not for the faint of heart.
For example, the gasket must be annealed prior to installation.
It also requires paint or sealant or both.
My current one has copper orings in the block around the chambers, gets a coat of paint and then silicone to seal up the water jackets.

Stay with the Best composite gaskets and make sure the block and head are flat. I use a Blanchard grinder here locally, it makes life real easy.

John
 
Colin, thanks for the info, did not know that but that does explain so,etchings as I had a B gasket on it.

I don't know anything about solid gaskets and from the sounds of it it's a lot of work! Not sure that one is for me....
 
KMeredith87 said:
So I took the head off of my pick up and found the modern style head gasket blown. Intended on having the bead trued prior to re-install but got in a hurry and pressed for time and didn't do so. However, I put it back together with a copper head gasket, was supposed to be a felpro but I did not see the typical felpro stamp in it so I have my doubts. Started it up, ran fine, drove it around 5 miles and lost all power and it wouldn't start back up. As it got put on the tow truck to come up I noticed water pouring out of the exhaust. I checked the fit prior to installation and everything looked good and didn't look like a fitment or clearance issue. Upon removing the head and inspection of the gasket it appears at least two of my intake valves struck the gasket and broke out some of the core material. I have oversize modern style intake valves, I believe 1.75 if I remember correctly. Has anyone had this problem before. Did the gasket slip? Would it be in my interest to put a modern style back on? Suggestions? I've read a lot about modern style vs copper and that's not really my concern here just trying to figure out what has the best fit for my application. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I use a Best 573 Head gasket with my repop Al Winfield head with 1 3/4" intakes. Model A block. I do torque to 65 lbs. and I use a Copper gasket sealer. I'm currently running with 8.5 compression. I had a solid copper on this engine with a 9.5 to 1 Winfield Crowsfoot but it wouldn't hold outer portions of 2 and 3, fine at idle but not under operating speed, just puffed smoke out, this with ARP type studs and heat treated nuts.
 
Great info, I really appreciate all the help! Looks like I'll be calling best gasket next week sometime and have my head trued. Suggestions on where to buy a best gasket as their website doesn't support online buying.
 
Thanks, I plan on using the 573 and was curious who people have used in the past to get their gaskets. I did see that list just didn't recognize more than one or two on there and even those I don't have any experience with.
 
KMeredith87 said:
Thanks, I plan on using the 573 and was curious who people have used in the past to get their gaskets. I did see that list just didn't recognize more than one or two on there and even those I don't have any experience with.
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OK, I've used Red's Headers quite a bit in the past for Y-Block Parts, just not A Parts, as I'm new to the A also. Good people, been in biz for a long time.

Oh I see now, Model B gasket #573.
 
Hey Bill,
Interesting info...'torque alum head to 65 lbs' :eek:..I guess that all the info that I've heard/read, about torqueing alum heads with LESS torque than iron..ain't so :confused: ! You break any alum this much torque..what process ?

Anyway, yeah, I have a Best 573 composite with steel fire rings. Haven't used yet , your positive result/input may change that ! Course , I'm talking B where you're talking A ?
 
hardtimes said:
Hey Bill,
Interesting info...'torque alum head to 65 lbs' :eek:..I guess that all the info that I've heard/read, about torqueing alum heads with LESS torque than iron..ain't so :confused: ! You break any alum this much torque..what process ?

Anyway, yeah, I have a Best 573 composite with steel fire rings. Haven't used yet , your positive result/input may change that ! Course , I'm talking B where you're talking A ?
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I'm telling you what I do not what you should do. We just tighten nuts in a circular pattern starting with #1 gradually tightening until desired torque is reached. The Best gasket that I use is a 573G Not sure how you would break an Al A B head by tightening. Sorry if I eek'd you!
 
Hey John,
So, if a guy has had a heart problem, he shouldn't mess with this :p !!
Are you saying that you have CUT wire ring grooves around each hole in block ? If so, what type of machine/equip necessary to do that work and can I get it at harbor freight ?

Can I just buy the gasket 'annealed'..no ? I do have the composite 573G Best B gasket, if good install procedure, will it hold 8.5:1, in your experience ?
 
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Hey Bill,
Thanks !
No....NO one tells me what to do, eh....well maybe SHE does, but nobody else:rolleyes: !
Now there is a heck of a lot of things that :eek: me, but if I start the list here, Ryan will ban me for sure..lol
 
hardtimes said:
Hey John,
So, if a guy has had a heart problem, he shouldn't mess with this :p !!
Are you saying that you have CUT wire ring grooves around each hole in block ? If so, what type of machine/equip necessary to do that work and can I get it at harbor freight ?

Can I just buy the gasket 'annealed'..no ? I do have the composite 573G Best B gasket, if good install procedure, will it hold 8.5:1, in your experience ?
Click to expand...

Rick,

To put in the copper wire orings, I use a CNC mill. This allows for the shape to be set up for the type of head. Typically, I use .040 copper wire.
The solid gasket will harden as the motor runs and will require annealing when a reseal is done.

The composite gasket will be fine at that CR, the oring/solid is for above 10, typically.

John
 
Rick,

CNC machine is a Mori-Seiki Jr, here shown working on girdle.

The cranks are made by Scat to spec.

Sorry, no shots of oring deck.

John
 

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Thanks John,
For the picture and the scat info ! Sometime if you get to dismantle that o-ringed block, please keep me in mind for a picture. Have not seen that operation, but have thot that that would be the CURE to all of our blown head gasket ills. I've been experimenting with approx. .040 copper wire between 1/2 and 3/4 narrows. Been talking with Mr. B :). Seems he has done it all,eh ! Anyway, my experiments seem to be paying off and are good therapy for someone who dislikes leaks !
 
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