Ford Pilot ...British flathead V8

R

rooboy

Member
Picked up a ' 47 / '52 85 hp 21 stud engine .. Drove a few in the early days ..but never pulled an engine down completly till now....Was interesting to note how smooth the crankshaft and rods had been cast compared to the rough castings of the US / Canadian cranks....Haven't weighed the crank as yet, but going by eye the counter weights appear to be a little smaller which could mean a little less weight...Bearings are full floating with the lip around the outer edges same as the early floaters...
Rods have 21O stamped on them but look identical to the 21A type..
May find other things as i go........
 
I've heard they had a duel purpose rod able to take either lock type bearings or floating type useing the same rod.....making them able to use either in case of shortages in war time...I've never come across them, or heard mention personally...
After i'ts cleaned up i'll measure every thing...
 
We rebuilt a Canadian 59 C engine about 25 years ago and it had locking type rod bearings but they were the same thickness as the floaters. Couldn't find bearings in the USA or Canada. Drake said they had barrels full of the rods but never saw one bearing. We wound up using the locker rods and full floating bearings. The car was around this area for close to 20 years before returning to Canada with no problems. I was a little leary of the locker groves running on the bearing, Drake said that's what they did so we had the rods resized, tried it and it worked. G.M.
 
I have Pilot and Ford GB, Ford Canada manuals galore, and all is unclear. I believe the wartime locked bearings were British, and also seviced in the Canadian system to keep everything serviceable and as interchangeable as possible in the wartime motorpool. Canada was a much bigger supplier than England for Fords for all of the Imperial armies, and I think Ford USA engines got some of their wartime mods to keep them interchangeable as they flowed into the Imperial armies.
Rods were meant to be usable with floter bearings and such interchange was expected...lots of sources say the locked bearings are utterly impossible to find, and of course there isn't any need for the wartime cost cutting now anyway.
I think but can't document that Canada built some civilian engines with locked rod bearings after WWII.
 
PS...Ford Pilot engine is the 1937 Ford 221 type, kept in production in England until the 1950's. It was usually equipped with Lucas distributor and electrics and I think a Solex carb, otherwise normal stuff. Used in England built bren carriers and trucks during WWII.
 
Europe and the UK also kept the 1936-37 styling in their cars and 1937 shape in their (little) commercials for years.

Manuel in Oz
 
This engine came from a 50's Trader truck ,as it had a 3 speed crash box behind it with a PTO, don't think there was much difference basically in the engines car / truck, although little things were...The carb. throttle linkage which is factory and the support bracket for it, is attached to the head by 2 studs and is forward of the carb on the right hand side..Has what looks like a heavy duty 11" clutch with a 8ba style fly wheel....there are know provision for clutch shudder rods on the engine..don't recall shudder rods on the car either ..but it was along time ago since i looked........
Still digging !!.............
 
There were 'shudder rods' on Pilots; unlike the American Fords which have them running back to attach to the X members, the Pilots went forward and hooked over the front cross member and bolted to the front face of it just inboard of the engine mounts.
Pilots had different exhaust manifolds; much better design than any Yankee job. They also came equipped with a bypass filter, which I think is the same as early Landrovers. A sealed unit, one needed to replace the entire filter, not just the cartridge.
The crankshaft is very similar to American 21 stud ['36 LB and later], but is drilled with double oil holes for the shell bearings, but has the larger diameter, longer snout that the 24 stud cranks have. Easy enough to shorten up and convert into an American 21 stud block. These Pilot big end shells are unique in as much as they have a flange on one side; they are just like an early [flanged] full floater, cut in half and with locking tabs in each shell. Of course flanged full floaters can run on that crank and the Pilot rods run on the outside of those floaters.
The Canadian shell bearings to suit double drilled crankpins did not have these flanges as the crankpins were narrower; this design was introduced with the 24 stud engines. I have had several sets of these bearings to suit the small journal cranks; the part number was C41A 6215 [then the factory code denoting size]; the large dia locked in bearings have the prefix C49A 6215. Anyone encountering these bearings in an engine can rest assured that you can run the common full floaters #6211 using the same rods and crankshaft [after carefully measuring everything up to ensure exactly what you have].
All pilots ran a 5T camshaft, and I understand they came from the factory with twin pipes, although I have no actual proof of this, just what I've been told by numerous 'knowledgeable' folk.
Brian
 
The GB and European (English sourced, Matford, etc.) '36 type styling isn't quite what it seems! The British and Germans had regular Model 48 and 68 American type cars, but much of the production was the Model 62...think that is right! 6=1936, 2=60hp engine. Anyway, the 62 was a European only model built for the new 60 engine introduced in GB in late 1935, and was just slightly smaller than USA type Fords, though still big by British standards.
The Model 62 sedans and station wagons built for the Army in WWII were built with the 221 engines for hard service, and the factory held onto the idea after the war... the Pilot is actually a Model 62 with new nose and 221 and a lot nicer interior than the army got.
Lots of 62 based cars were built in France, first as Fords then as Matford. Styling looked like a '36 Ford crossed with a Licoln Zephyr, very nice.
 
I forgot to add, the Pilot block differs slightly from 37-38 blocks inas much as it has [in addition to the freeze plugs in the pan rails], one more plug of the same size at the rear of each bank of cylinders. Brian
 
gidday brien pilots had twin exaust pipes the manifolds were great used to use on the 59a ect if you wanted twin pipes also if i remeber right the dizzys were 2 bolt alloy& the car had a weird braking system juice n cable ,but they came with some great gear ie leather seats brass windsheild frames chromed & some had hydrolic jacks oooops just had a senior moment will try to rember more trev:)
 
rooboy said:
this engine came from a 50's trader truck ,as it had a 3 speed crash box behind it with a pto, don't think there was much difference basically in the engines car / truck, although little things were...the carb. Throttle linkage which is factory and the support bracket for it, is attached to the head by 2 studs and is forward of the carb on the right hand side..has what looks like a heavy duty 11" clutch with a 8ba style fly wheel....there are know provision for clutch shudder rods on the engine..don't recall shudder rods on the car either ..but it was along time ago since i looked........
Still digging !!.............
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gidday mate trev
 
Yeah, the Pilot exhaust manifolds were way, way better than the regular manifolds. I just got offered a pair to use on my project, but unfortunately they wont clear my steering setup. :(
Pilots had hydraulic front brakes and cable rears (dont ask me why) and came with wide five wheels equipped with very cool fully chromed hubcaps.
 
Your right about the windscreen being brass I have one in my 35 Coup ,The Dizy was Lucas with roller bearings a nice piece ,you can put the early 21stud heads on them Ford had a special blank of plate to cover the water pump holes . The Piolet model was as Bruce said a face lifted Model 62 there is one around here just a body
 

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Heres the Pilot Rods with a non Flanged bearing
 

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Update on the pilot engine Brian . This crank has 1 oil hole only crank pins...uses fully flanged floaters which have 2 holes per half and grooved down the middle on both halves, no lock tags on either rod or bearings..(1.999) rods a exactly the same as 21a's. Dosen't have the longer snout crank..in fact if 39/40 cranks were laid out along side you'd think they were both the same ..same pulley and crank handle nut, but the Pilot has much smoother counter weights with small holes only on the end counter weights..Water pumps are double pulley as original, with brass drain taps on the bottom of each pump.. as original.........
Pistons are flat top 3 ring split skirt genuine Ford...
They are a unusual 0.45 over size....
Gudgion pins are a very light type ..in fact, the lightest iv'e ever seen... i'm going to use them in my current project along with the little end bushings as they are both in excellent condition
CORRECTION......block HAS clutch shudder rod holes on the block ..After part cleaning the block which was covered in s**t. I found them filled with dried clay....
Engine has the orignal remote oil filler which is bolted to the intake manifold behind .. the oil filler....Has the factory twin exhaust manifolds as in stock..these were as prize "get" in the early days..The cars came with factory twin exhausts...Starter was better than the US type ,as it had a shorter body which made it easier to bring the rear exhaust pipe around the starter when fitting headers..it also cranked a little quicker..............
 
rooboy said:
Update on the pilot engine Brian . This crank has 1 oil hole only crank pins...uses fully flanged floaters which have 2 holes per half and grooved down the middle on both halves, no lock tags on either rod or bearings..(1.999) rods a exactly the same as 21a's. Dosen't have the longer snout crank..in fact if 39/40 cranks were laid out along side you'd think they were both the same ..same pulley and crank handle nut, but the Pilot has much smoother counter weights with small holes only on the end counter weights..Water pumps are double pulley as original, with brass drain taps on the bottom of each pump.. as original.........
Pistons are flat top 3 ring split skirt genuine Ford...
They are a unusual 0.45 over size....
Gudgion pins are a very light type ..in fact, the lightest iv'e ever seen... i'm going to use them in my current project along with the little end bushings as they are both in excellent condition
CORRECTION......block HAS clutch shudder rod holes on the block ..After part cleaning the block which was covered in s**t. I found them filled with dried clay....
Engine has the orignal remote oil filler which is bolted to the intake manifold behind .. the oil filler....Has the factory twin exhaust manifolds as in stock..these were as prize "get" in the early days..The cars came with factory twin exhausts...Starter was better than the US type ,as it had a shorter body which made it easier to bring the rear exhaust pipe around the starter when fitting headers..it also cranked a little quicker..............
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Hello Rooboy, Any chance of posting some pictures of that car, the engine and some of these special parts you speak of? Would be great for us who have never seen these cars or special parts before. Thanks, JM
 
ken ct said:
Sure would like to find 1 of those brass windshield frames for my 36 coupe.Ken ct.
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Yeah Ken, I would also love to find a brass windscreen/windshield frame to use on one of my US made '35's. Maybe someone from England, Canada, Aus., or NZ, who may have some of these brass WS frames, will read these posts and let us know how we can both buy one :rolleyes:. So far I have had no luck. I am planing to go to England in Sept., so maybe I can find one while there. JM
 
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