Modern starter drive problem

Karl

Well-known member
Today after my 90 minute run I parked the car in the drive when i went to start it I got a loud whirring noise from the starter but no turn over of the engine and of course no start I crank started it to drive it into the garage and then removed the starter motor. This is what the drive looks like The teeth are quite chewed as are the ring gear teeth . Rotating the starter drive reveals that the shaft of the starter is quite bent which I suspect is the source of the problem. I'm sure that it wasn't bent when I installed the modern drive 2 years ago. -Has anyone seen this happen before -Karl
 

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As you can see the teeth are not fully engaging the ring gear. This has been reported since these drives gained popularity several years ago. There are owners that will state on a stack of bibles that their drives are seated fine. As a matter of fact if someone asked you a few days ago you would have told them that you have used the drive for 2 years with no problems.

If anyone reading this has this drive or plans to use this drive, It would be advisable for you to put a few extra gaskets between the starter and engine to get better meshing of the gears.
 
Was this done by a 6 volt or 12 volt system?

I am working on similar concerns for the 'modern' Bendix.

It seems to me that this requires more than a few paper-thin gaskets. 1/8 inch would be more like it. What material would be suitable for making such a spacer?
 
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Had the same problem myself. Bent shaft, split keyway, stripped ring gear, and cracked housing of new drive. This happened a week after having the motor out!
I'm running twelve volts. I am going to replace ring gear in the next week or two.....
 
Check to see of the ring gear on the flywheel has moved. Our car ring gear had moved a lot and the bendix was not fully engagine.
 
Had one of these "modern" starter drives shatter after just 5 days - probably about 40 starts. Never going to use one again, back to the old style for me from now on . I noticed that the modern starter drive was "Made in India" - no disrespect but sometimes their quality just insn't up to it.
 
Again I feel it is a solution looking for a problem. We have used original bendix drives on all the project cars, both 6 Volt and 12 Volt putting somewhere close to 40,000 miles on them and never had a failure with the original. Can't see why people run to the new drive. As far as the bent shaft the next issue of the Model A Times (in the mail on Friday) will have an article on the new starter armature being made by PV Antique Auto, that will solve the bent shaft problem.
 
Was this done by a 6 volt or 12 volt system?

I am working on similar concerns for the 'modern' Bendix.

It seems to me that this requires more than a few paper-thin gaskets. 1/8 inch would be more like it. What material would be suitable for making such a spacer?

Standard 6V system -Karl
 
Had one of these "modern" starter drives shatter after just 5 days - probably about 40 starts. Never going to use one again, back to the old style for me from now on . I noticed that the modern starter drive was "Made in India" - no disrespect but sometimes their quality just insn't up to it.

I thought that mine was USA made as American flag sticker on it . Of course that may have been put there in India . The Japanese built a manufacturing city called Usa - so that the could put " Made in USA " on their products - Karl
 
Again I feel it is a solution looking for a problem. We have used original bendix drives on all the project cars, both 6 Volt and 12 Volt putting somewhere close to 40,000 miles on them and never had a failure with the original. Can't see why people run to the new drive. As far as the bent shaft the next issue of the Model A Times (in the mail on Friday) will have an article on the new starter armature being made by PV Antique Auto, that will solve the bent shaft problem.

I agree with John. I've never had a problem using the original Bendix, and never would consider putting on something that is known to not fit correctly.
 
The position issue has been thoroughly worked over several times before, going way back into Shelly's Fordbarn. You need 5/32" forward movement. Too much for either gaskets or a spacer, as you will lose the engagement of the starter face alignment flange into the flywheel housing casting.

The best solution is to rotate the starter shaft and cut a new Woodruff key slot and a carefully measured location spot drill 5/32" forward. This will leave you with a shaft that will accommodate both types of drive. As an alternative to cutting a new Woodruff key, you could weld up the old spot-drill and move it forward, but then you could not go back to a Bendix.

I have found three different manufacturers, the 'throw' on all is slightly different, all much, much less than a Bendix. One jambed in the extended position when the internal helix cracked. Another had a stick, or hitch in the travel. Disassembling it revealed an extremely crude, rough machined helix that was glass-hard and brittle. Annealing it at 700F left it in a workable condition where I was able to clean it up with a Dumore die grinder. It has been OK for about 100 starts. The third had such a short measured travel it would never be good for more than 75% engagement.

I'm now thinking the old Bendix is best, just be careful not to buck it with too much advance at startup. If someone came up with a lace-on synthetic fiber scattershield for the spring and end-piece to keep thing in place if the spring or bolt fails, that would be great.
 
I`m with ol Flathead, The slop in the crank is also a big factor that many don`t think about, but there does appear to be a problem with the modern replacements. Monte
 
Had the same problem myself. Bent shaft, split keyway, stripped ring gear, and cracked housing of new drive. This happened a week after having the motor out!
I'm running twelve volts. I am going to replace ring gear in the next week or two.....

Bick will you go back to the original Bendix- I think I will I just can't see how I can make the modern drive mesh properly. The local autoelectrician reckons he can straighten the drive in a press -I guess we'll see -Karl
 
Based on the contents of this thread, especially #13 from MikeK, I have decided to revert to the original Bendix.

I installed the 'modern' unit in preparation for a 12-volt conversion as per Les Andrews in the Model A Mechanics Handbook, Vol. II. Almost immediately I began to notice undesirable wear patterns on the new gear.

The theory behind the conversion seems to be that a 6-volt starter motor operating at 12 volts will be energetic enough to over stress the original Bendix, leading to premature failure. In light of this danger, I intend to simply convert the stock starter motor to 12 volt by replacing the field coils with available catalog parts.

Does this seem reasonable, or am I overlooking anything here?
 
Yes, good luck replacing the field coils. I've never been able to get those %^%%^screws out! Good job for an auto electric shop. I have one nearby where the guy will do little favors like that for free, when he sees it's for an OLD car.
 
Bick will you go back to the original Bendix- I think I will I just can't see how I can make the modern drive mesh properly. The local autoelectrician reckons he can straighten the drive in a press -I guess we'll see -Karl

Yes it is my intention to go back to the old setup. I can't remeber now why I changed in the first place.
 
Yes it is my intention to go back to the old setup. I can't remeber now why I changed in the first place.

Me neither I've had the car 5 years and for 3 of those ran the standard drive and only put the modern on two years ago . The car was restored in 1987 so I presume the original drive has been on since at least then. Today I fished out the old bendix Not one trace of any wear on the teeth !!!
 
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