distributor advance all the way retarded
- Thread starter oldrelics
- Start date
Walt Dupont--Me.
Well-known member
Are you using the helmet dist or the the crab dist? Is your engine stock souped up? Walt
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Lets take a closer look.
The fact that the timing adjustment is needed is only in the case of contact point adjustment and wear.
The slot typically allows 12 degrees of timing change , 6 advance and 6 retarded.
The contacts share duty with the drivers side controlling the actual timing and the pass side controlling the coil build up/saturation or dwell...
Each degree of dwell change ( point gap) would equal 2 degrees of engine timing...
Ex: 41 Ford helmet set at .016 point gap is 27 degrees of dwell on meter. After some mileage the rubbing block wears down to a gap of .014 or lets say 30 degrees of dwell.
Thats 3 degrees of dwell that would retard the crank timing 6 degrees.
In this example the wear would cause 6 degrees of timing change requiring the tuner to use the timing slot and modify timing to put it back in spec. (made up example)
So usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.
The fact that the timing adjustment is needed is only in the case of contact point adjustment and wear.
The slot typically allows 12 degrees of timing change , 6 advance and 6 retarded.
The contacts share duty with the drivers side controlling the actual timing and the pass side controlling the coil build up/saturation or dwell...
Each degree of dwell change ( point gap) would equal 2 degrees of engine timing...
Ex: 41 Ford helmet set at .016 point gap is 27 degrees of dwell on meter. After some mileage the rubbing block wears down to a gap of .014 or lets say 30 degrees of dwell.
Thats 3 degrees of dwell that would retard the crank timing 6 degrees.
In this example the wear would cause 6 degrees of timing change requiring the tuner to use the timing slot and modify timing to put it back in spec. (made up example)
So usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.
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Original bell, engine is 221 .060 over, rebuilt to stock specs. I thought I set the gap according to the spec with my feeler gauge, as for the vacuum brake it is new one with new leather, the adj bolt all the way out. I'm clueless on how to adjust it.
Dwell? I have a dwell meter, can I use it on this?
Bubba, I think I'll just pack up my spare distributor and send it to you
.....
Dwell? I have a dwell meter, can I use it on this?
Bubba, I think I'll just pack up my spare distributor and send it to you
.....
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Ford says to drive the car turning the brake adjustment outward until you get spark knock on light acceleration. Then turn screw back in one turn etc..
When we build a new unit i adjust them all the way out and then in three turns....
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Original bell, engine is 221 .060 over, rebuilt to stock specs. I thought I set the gap according to the spec with my feeler gauge, as for the vacuum brake it is new one with new leather, the adj bolt all the way out. I'm clueless on how to adjust it.
Dwell? I have a dwell meter, can I use it on this?
Bubba, I think I'll just pack up my spare distributor and send it to you
Thats cool get er to us.....
Bubbas Hot Rod Shop
1330 Main Street
Speedway Indiana 46224
Bassman/NZ
Well-known member
You wont regret sending it to Bubbas! It will come back so nice you'll want to mount it in a glass case and display it!
ken ct
BANNED
if you have a brand new vacume piston,leather and spring. The spring might be the culprit. Use the old spring. It must float in the piston not tight in it or it will hinder the action of the piston. Ive found this to be the case with piston sets from Mac's in NY. The diameter is too big. OMO ken ct.
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
Bubba I rely hate to correct such a prominent distributor builder such as yourself , I think the punters here are at least entitled to factual answers ..Going by the example posted here and my experience Your .014" ware factor will result in late timing eg retarded ,as the rubbing block wares it strikes the cam higher up resulting in late timing . Retarding the timing 6 degrees as in your example ,not only that dwell would increase from your 27 onwards .
QUOTE=BUBBAS IGNITION;807501]Lets take a closer look.
The fact that the timing adjustment is needed is only in the case of contact point adjustment and wear.
The slot typically allows 12 degrees of timing change , 6 advance and 6 retarded.
The contacts share duty with the drivers side controlling the actual timing and the pass side controlling the coil build up/saturation or dwell...
each degree of dwell change ( point gap) would equal 2 degrees of engine timing...
Ex: 41 Ford helmet set at .016 point gap is 27 degrees of dwell on meter. After some mileage the rubbing block wears down to a gap of .014 or lets say 24 degrees of dwell.
Thats 3 degrees of dwell that would advance the crank timing 6 degrees.
In this example the wear would cause 6 degrees of advance requiring the tuner to use the timing slot and retard timing to put it back in spec. (made up example)
So usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=BUBBAS IGNITION;807501]Lets take a closer look.
The fact that the timing adjustment is needed is only in the case of contact point adjustment and wear.
The slot typically allows 12 degrees of timing change , 6 advance and 6 retarded.
The contacts share duty with the drivers side controlling the actual timing and the pass side controlling the coil build up/saturation or dwell...
each degree of dwell change ( point gap) would equal 2 degrees of engine timing...
Ex: 41 Ford helmet set at .016 point gap is 27 degrees of dwell on meter. After some mileage the rubbing block wears down to a gap of .014 or lets say 24 degrees of dwell.
Thats 3 degrees of dwell that would advance the crank timing 6 degrees.
In this example the wear would cause 6 degrees of advance requiring the tuner to use the timing slot and retard timing to put it back in spec. (made up example)
So usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.
[/QUOTE]Attachments
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Ted , Good job on reading in detail what i posted .....
A couple issues as i wrote this up to show a point not really exactly acurate as written only as a example.
Your manual picture showing the points are the early contacts with the external adjustment and on those we adjust to the 27 degrees .
Actually we dont use a feeler gauge and i use specs from the Ford service manual etc.
We use a dwell meter with the unit on a machine and set the crabs at 23 degrees and then use both sets at 36 , all from the spec manual.......
My post wasnt meant to be used a a exact spec , and my intent was to have people think about the total operation of the distributor. The dwell effecting the timing is something most never even think about....I had the dwell effects backward as you noted however i meant it to show the change with point wear being a problem with timing...corrections are now made ....
I respect your skills with the flathead and this week is " beat on Bubba" week so thanks for the comments......
A couple issues as i wrote this up to show a point not really exactly acurate as written only as a example.
Your manual picture showing the points are the early contacts with the external adjustment and on those we adjust to the 27 degrees .
Actually we dont use a feeler gauge and i use specs from the Ford service manual etc.
We use a dwell meter with the unit on a machine and set the crabs at 23 degrees and then use both sets at 36 , all from the spec manual.......
My post wasnt meant to be used a a exact spec , and my intent was to have people think about the total operation of the distributor. The dwell effecting the timing is something most never even think about....I had the dwell effects backward as you noted however i meant it to show the change with point wear being a problem with timing...corrections are now made ....
I respect your skills with the flathead and this week is " beat on Bubba" week so thanks for the comments......
[/QUOTE]Bubba I rely hate to correct such a prominent distributor builder such as yourself , I think the punters here are at least entitled to factual answers ..Going by the example posted here and my experience Your .014" ware factor will result in late timing eg retarded ,as the rubbing block wares it strikes the cam higher up resulting in late timing . Retarding the timing 6 degrees as in your example ,not only that dwell would increase from your 27 onwards .
So usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.
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BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
[/quote]bubba i rely hate to correct such a prominent distributor builder such as yourself , i think the punters here are at least entitled to factual answers ..going by the example posted here and my experience your .014" ware factor will result in late timing eg retarded ,as the rubbing block wares it strikes the cam higher up resulting in late timing . Retarding the timing 6 degrees as in your example ,not only that dwell would increase from your 27 onwards .
Quote=bubbas ignition;807501]lets take a closer look.
The fact that the timing adjustment is needed is only in the case of contact point adjustment and wear.
The slot typically allows 12 degrees of timing change , 6 advance and 6 retarded.
The contacts share duty with the drivers side controlling the actual timing and the pass side controlling the coil build up/saturation or dwell...
Each degree of dwell change ( point gap) would equal 2 degrees of engine timing...
Ex: 41 ford helmet set at .016 point gap is 27 degrees of dwell on meter. After some mileage the rubbing block wears down to a gap of .014 or lets say 30 degrees of dwell.
thats 3 degrees of dwell that would retard the crank timing 6 degrees.
in this example the wear would cause 6 degrees of timing change requiring the tuner to use the timing slot and retard timing to put it back in spec. (made up example)
so usually when a car owner says they had to push the timing slot all the way one way or the other the contacts need adjustment.
The vacuum brake can be adjusted on the Ford~Heyer test machine. You only need a small vacuum pump to be able to set the brake on your machine. Also piston wear will show up with the vacuum pump. I have seen a lot with pistons that just sit in there moving up and down because vacuum leaks by the piston. As you stated the points are not set with feeler gauges but by dwell displayed on the machine. I have posted that a rebuilt distributor should have the point gaps measured after being strobed and marked inside the housing. Then later the points could be reset after the plastic shoes wear this would get them back to being close in timing. G.M.