new kid, first purchase T

charliechaindrive

charliechaindrive

Junior Member
Hello all, my name's Charlie. I'm 16, and I just bought myself a 1924ish T frame. I got it for 80$, and since I don't have a title for it I would like to build it into a speedster, or cycle car.

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I'm kind of looking for some advice on building this. I'm looking at a '25 Chevy bucket, and I have just been told about a '28 ford whippet front clip. (Cowl, hood and radiator with shell) I need to either get new spokes and iron rims for my demountable's, or I'd like to convert to model A wires. I've heard that the tires for wire A rims are expensive though. Would rebuilding all four of my hickory's be cheaper than finding 4 good A rims and tires? I have access to my dad's full machine and fab shop, but my budget is quite low.

I also found a steering box out of an old mustang, Would this work in the T?




Thanks for reading, and this T is technically my first car.

Ccd.
 
WELCOME Charlie---- keep looking for parts, you can find them reasonable if you are not in a great big hurry! Gary
 
Thanks for the welcome! I have also found a pair of '39 ford axles (front and rear) with hydraulic brakes for 100$. Is this a good deal? Will or would they fit on the T chassis? I've heard that the spring placement is different on the 39 rear axle and that it might lower the stance of the frame. Which, Would be a happy side effect. Or would I be okay if I used the T's original drum emergency brakes as my main stopping power? Well, that depends on if I've got lined e-brakes or the steel on steel variety I guess.
 
Those little drums on the wood wheels won't do much stopping. They were mainly a park brake. The main stopping on a T was in the transmission and it is not all that good for today's traffic.
 
Welcome to the affliction Charlie. This will tell you which parts to get first.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Before you buy a lot of stuff I'd suggest you get familiar with what's stock on a T so you have some idea what you're replacing if you adapt some other kind of part.

I can't answer all your questions, but I can help on a couple of them. The Whippet was made by Willys, not Ford. Making the Whippet stuff fit on your frame would take some adapting. I haven't priced tires for Model A, but I'd be surprised if they cost a lot more than Model T tires. Wire wheels are another story. Model A wires are much more plentiful and much cheaper than Model T wheels, BUT there again, making them fit would take some adaptation. Model T steering and Mustang steering are totally different. So no, I don't think the Mustang steering box will do you any good.

I try to go original as much as possible, so I can give some advice on the stock stuff, but somebody else with different experience will have to advise you about which odd parts might be usable. I suspect that in the long run you'd be money ahead and save a lot of grief and hassle if you stuck with Ford Model T parts, which are much more plentiful than parts for other makes and models of the period.
 
The body pieces sound like they will work, even the whippet parts as people used to modify those to fit a model T back in the speedster era. The mustang steering box will work if you use the '30s axles but those mount a little differently, personally i would use the T axles for a lightweight speedster & if you need a lower steering ratio a ford 10 steering box looks light enough, it might work but you could have a hard time finding one.
As for the wheels i think model A tires (which for vintage tires are not that pricey compared to other sizes) would fit those rims, they might need some repairs judging by the photographs. i have entertained the idea of using plowing disks as steel wheels to replace the wood spokes, that might work for you.
If you do use the original axles you can add a band brake that goes around the outside of the brake drum as well as using the internal brake shoes. Pick your choice of whether the parking brake is the one on the outside or inside of the drum & the pedal goes on the other. The linkage is simple enough you could swap them over of you change your mind.
 
Here's my take and it ain't pretty. What you have Charlie is bare bones. Just re-building what's there is probably in the $1000.00 area. Without the tires & tubes. The first thing you need to do is make up your mind about what you want it to be and any stuff you collect should be related to that idea. Picking up the type of items you have is relatively cheap. Maybe the guy just wants to get rid of it. Whatever. It's the repairs/refurbishing that costs. I'm not trying to disillusion you. It's like building a house and the framing goes up and you say I'm almost there. You're not. Especially if your vision of a complete car is foggy. Start with what you've got, ask questions and make up your mind.
 
Im with Charlie B, with whats there, u don't have enough money to have anything when your done, at least start with a complete running chassie, $1500 should find u one, put a wooden seat on it and go cruzing.
 
I disagree about those wheels needing repair. They need rebuilding or replacing. First, the rims are rusted through. If you're staying with wood wheels, replace those rims with good ones. Second, it looks like those spokes are rotten. They have to go. You can build a spoke press and replace them yourself for about $80 a wheel. Or you can have a professional wheel shop rebuild them for about $150 each. Whatever you do, ignore all the suggestions about trying to fix those rusted through rims and rotten spokes. Your life depends on it. You can skimp on stuff that's not dangerous. The other choice is wire wheels. For those, tires don't matter. T and A tires cost about the same. Model A wire wheels will cost a lot less than Model T wire wheels unless you get a very lucky deal on some T wheels. But Model A wheels will need some kind of adapter to make them fit on Model T hubs. I don't know how hard that is or what it costs. If you go with wire wheels you'll also need the wire wheel hubs to put them on.

A good study reference is a Mac's catalogue. It has great pictures of many of the parts. For actually buying parts, get the catalogues from Lang's, Chaffin's, Birdhaven, Bob's, and Snyder's.
 
Steve Jelf said:
I disagree about those wheels needing repair. They need rebuilding or replacing. First, the rims are rusted through. If you're staying with wood wheels, replace those rims with good ones. Second, it looks like those spokes are rotten. They have to go. You can build a spoke press and replace them yourself for about $80 a wheel. Or you can have a professional wheel shop rebuild them for about $150 each. Whatever you do, ignore all the suggestions about trying to fix those rusted through rims and rotten spokes. Your life depends on it. You can skimp on stuff that's not dangerous. The other choice is wire wheels. For those, tires don't matter. T and A tires cost about the same. Model A wire wheels will cost a lot less than Model T wire wheels unless you get a very lucky deal on some T wheels. But Model A wheels will need some kind of adapter to make them fit on Model T hubs. I don't know how hard that is or what it costs. If you go with wire wheels you'll also need the wire wheel hubs to put them on.
A good study reference is a Mac's catalogue. It has great pictures of many of the parts. For actually buying parts, get the catalogues from Lang's, Chaffin's, Birdhaven, Bob's, and Snyder's.
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Thanks for the advice guys, I know my original wheels are pretty much shot now, unless I were to put quite a bit of money into them.
I have access to my dad's full machine shop, he has a mill, lathe, and pretty much any other machine a person could need. Model a wheels will probably be the way I'm going with this, and depending on the rim size, won't some motorcycle tires fit onto the A rims? They're rated for highway use. And my dad works at a motorcycle shop so I probably could score some used tires that still have plenty of usability left. I've done some research on A to T hub adapters, and they seem to be a round section of 1" steel, drilled out in the center with holes tapped on th back side to fit onto the T hub, and they then have the A bolt pattern drilled into the front face and that is tapped for the appropriate size wheel stud. They are bolted solid to the T flange, and then bolts go trough the A wheel into the plate and are secured with lock tite and lock washers. Either that, I've seen some people Chuck the T hub into their mill and just bore the A bolt pattern right into the hub flange, and spacer the rim out from the flange, and just run bolts all the way through. I could see where this would-be a tempting corner to cut, but to me that seems fairly unsafe. Or am I just poking it with a stick for nothing? I realize I have little to build off of with this, and I think that's a good thing. A blank canvas.

Ccd
 
From your description of the wheel adapters they sound pretty stout and wouldn't be difficult to make. They have the added advantage of not requiring you to alter permanently any original parts.
 
Where are you located? I have a Model T short block (block, crank, pistons, valves are assembled) that I would give you. It would probably run with a head (they are a dime a dozen) and an oil pan, of course with coils, timer, and that stuff. Yes it would probably run but should no doubt be rebuilt. I wont ever use it and helping out a young guy would be great. How else we gonna get the next generation interested?
 
Greg Jones said:
Where are you located? I have a Model T short block (block, crank, pistons, valves are assembled) that I would give you. It would probably run with a head (they are a dime a dozen) and an oil pan, of course with coils, timer, and that stuff. Yes it would probably run but should no doubt be rebuilt. I wont ever use it and helping out a young guy would be great. How else we gonna get the next generation interested?
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I'm in almost the middle of minnesota unfortunatly. but a free motor is a hard thing to pass up! I'll send you a PM here in a few hours. And the hub adapters are very simple,, I'd have a section of thick walled tubing that'd be welded in the center of the adapter that would fit into the center hole of the A rim to add some support for there.
 
Wheel adapter plan sounds good so far but the heavy tube wall, Does it go right near the edge for a model A wheel? From memory wheel fits closely to the brake drum.

Steve Jelf said:
I disagree about those wheels needing repair. They need rebuilding or replacing.
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What is the difference? i never said shimming the spokes with chewing gum, nobody does that in real life.

Forgot to add, motorcycle tires would not likely have sidewalls strong enough for a car. Cars do not lean over on corners like motorcycles do so the sidewalls might suffer.
 
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Hi Charlie- You've got a really fun idea and I would encourage you to pursue the speedster idea. However it would be wize to heed the advice you've gotten about costs and time necessary to accomplish your dream. A speedster doesn't have any definite definition as long as it's an era-correct creation, so there are unlimited levels of looks, personalities and performance you can do. My preference is something that is a recreation of a '20's racer. You will save GOBS of time and money and get gobs of satisfaction by investing in "The Model T in Speed and Sport", "Model T Speed Secrets","The Fast Ford Handbook", Leslie Henry's "Model T Restoration", etc. Also find Mr. Model "T" who has posted hundreds of photos of his fetching '27 roadster gow job build on fordbarn or H.A.M.B. You will be able to find lots of speedster builders to help you in your pursuits, if they don't find you first. I have built "T" speedsters and they're more fun to look at and drive than can be described. I don't think my "T"s are on my website, but it may still give you some more ideas: olympic-speedsters.com
 
Jim Huseby said:
Hi Charlie- You've got a really fun idea and I would encourage you to pursue the speedster idea. However it would be wize to heed the advice you've gotten about costs and time necessary to accomplish your dream. A speedster doesn't have any definite definition as long as it's an era-correct creation, so there are unlimited levels of looks, personalities and performance you can do. My preference is something that is a recreation of a '20's racer. You will save GOBS of time and money and get gobs of satisfaction by investing in "The Model T in Speed and Sport", "Model T Speed Secrets","The Fast Ford Handbook", Leslie Henry's "Model T Restoration", etc. Also find Mr. Model "T" who has posted hundreds of photos of his fetching '27 roadster gow job build on fordbarn or H.A.M.B. You will be able to find lots of speedster builders to help you in your pursuits, if they don't find you first. I have built "T" speedsters and they're more fun to look at and drive than can be described. I don't think my "T"s are on my website, but it may still give you some more ideas: olympic-speedsters.com
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I'll search up those books here later today, thanks! :D
 
Welcome, keep an eye on Craigslist and this summer go to the swap meets, tell the vendors your story and next thing you know you will have more parts than you know what to do with which can be used for reselling/ trading for the ones you need. With a model T parts are super easy and for the most part cheap to come by. The problem is that your interests will usually expand into other cars and before long you have a collection going. If you start hoarding though keep them protected, I have seen my fair share of useless collector car junkyards melting into the earth. I am up in Duluth but when on a road trip in your area I could swing by to help out, just let me know.
 
Great to know that there are young people interested. You have more parts than I had when I started with my 1918 Runabout. I only had a chassis. I have been busy with it for 4 years and hope to complete it in the next 3 months.
I purchased my first old car when I was 13 years old and I still have it. Purchased my first Model T when I was 30 in running condition. I have managed to find a further 31 cars of various makes since and have about 14 running at the moment and another 6 to complete soon. All my cars are under cover and I work on about 6 projects at a time. I only purchase new tires after the car is completed and has done a test run. I use old tire casings to get the car mobile for a back yard test drive. I also repair the engine last. It helps with the cash flow! The computer age has made restorations much easier and Google is my best friend for information, parts, detail etc. I do a lot of research before I start with a project. I laminate all drawings, photos and information for use in the workshop.
Good luck with your project and please post progress reports.
 
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