Copra Drab PPG color code error

W

wrndln

Well-known member
I posted a message here on Fordbarn, several day ago, about painting the trim (windshield frame & hinge) on my car PPG Concept Copra Drab that actually looked like Arabian Sand Dark (the lower body color). The main body color is Arabian Sand Dark on my 28 special coupe. Well, today I had the paint supplier mix another 1/2 pint of Copra Drab to see if it was the same color as the earlier Copra Drab or if he had made a mistake on the first can. It turned out to be the exact same color as the first Copra Drab I got sometime back that looks very close to Arabian Sand Dark (more gray than brown). I really can't tell the difference between the two colors when the windshield frame is held up against the main part of the car. What the paint fellow discovered was the PPG paint code must have an error in it. The color definitely does not match the more brownish Copra Drab color chip in the Paint & Finish Guide. He is going to call PPG and inform them the Copra Drab code is in error. He said he has had this happen several times before (not model A colors, however). I don't know if the corresponding DuPont color code is correct or not. I am using PPG Concept as my top coat. I just thought I would post this message in case someone else is going to paint their car trim Copra Drab using PPG Concept. I will have to repaint my windshield frame and hinge again when I get the proper mix of Copra Drab.
Rusty Nelson
Lakeville, MN
 
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How did your dealer mix the toners? I'm in a similar boat and wondering how accurately colors can be mixed by the dealers. I used PPG BC/CC in a Ford Maroon and swear the color is incorrect. Its not like the big home stores which have a computer to spit out toners per the code. The PPG dealer used quart toners with special caps to poor off the recipe.

I haven't pulled the car into the sun yet but it looks way too light compared to the chip. I have some parts still in the original lacquer and they are much darker. Does the lacquer darken with age exaggerating the difference? Or perhaps the clear coat tones it down giving a different effect. I'm annoyed but the car is painted now and looks good even if its not original so I guess there is no sense crying over it but I'm curious to see what you dig up.

Bob NJ
 
I hope you are aware that years ago Ditzler made an error in Chicle and copra drab. They put it in their color chip book and that is what we all thought was chicle a copra drab. In the new MAFCA Finish guide you will find another Chicle and copra drab which looks more like a brown color. This is supposd to be the new "correct " color. So you will find two chicle and Copra colors, the old Ditzler, and the new PPG.
by the way PPG bought Ditzler many years ago. There is also a difference in the color Elkpoint and Kewanee green. Take a look at that one as I would never paint my car Elkpoint and Kewanee if I had to use that shade.
I hope I have explained this correctly and made it clear. Maybe Marco can expand the explanation,
Thanks and I hope I helped,
Ken
 
I have -2- A's both painted chicle/copra. They are what is called the "green tint."

On Marco's website he shows a car with the chicle/copra in the "brown tint".

I have been told that the brown tint is correct and the green tint is either an ongoing number/code mistake from years ago; or the original brown tints faded/weathered to a greenish color and somebody matched that and thought it was the original color.

I have never seen a chicle/copra in person of the brown tint; but LOTS of A's in the green tint.

F W I W (and probably not much)

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI
 
Bob it's too bad the maroon on your car isn't making you smile.
Have you any way of knowing if your paint guy agitated each toner thoroughly before making your colour?
Not everyone knows that pigment can settle inside a gallon can, into a 1" deep solid layer in a few days...it's heavy. Deep reds especially have the highest concentration of pigment, they weigh more & cost more to buy as a result.
I just wonder if there's an outside possibility that the man...or child...who built your paint was PORING when he shouldn't been still MIXING? I mixed paint for a few years and have seen this happen more than once.

Also the depth of colour can be deceiving when staring into the can, think about it... you're looking at paint a foot thick.
2 or 3 thin coats, finally on your car in full light, can look different.
Compound this problem by spraying over a light gray sealer or that hideous bright yellow 2 part and you're gonna move up a few shades lighter again. Black DP90 would at least offer some insurance in the event you receive a colour with low toner content.

Finally, while I suppose lacquer COULD darken with age, I'm of the opinion that a brisk cut polish should cut down into the true original colour. I took the garnish moldings once from an unmolested 30 coupe and found a great example of Ford maroon inside...literally kept in the dark for over 70 yrs...it polishes up freely but it's noticably "muddier" than modern paints, although the chips in the mafca paint & finish guide represent it pretty fair otherwise.
Clear coat enhences colours dramatically and that could be another contributing factor to your disenchantment with the colour.
Simple solution, have a pint mixed, different person, same brand, stand there and make sure the toners get stirred for a minumum of 20 minutes. If I was doing it myself I'd remove the lids and stir stick the bottoms of each can, then back on the mixer for a few minutes more.
Don't forget to paint the sample stick with the same shade sealer as the car got before you paint & clear the sample.
Sorry bout the long post but maybe something here will be usefull.
 
I have seen Marco's website where you can change the color of the car; but does anyone have car pictures that they could post that shows the difference in the green tint vs. the brown tint? If I am understanding correctly the new Paint and Finish guide is the proper "brown tint"?
 
31Tudor said:
I have seen Marco's website where you can change the color of the car; but does anyone have car pictures that they could post that shows the difference in the green tint vs. the brown tint? If I am understanding correctly the new Paint and Finish guide is the proper "brown tint"?
Click to expand...

Yep. We had a Fordor "in paint" several years ago that this created some stress for us. We did not realize the error until we rolled it out into the sunlight. By this time the body was already colorsanded & buffed. PPG paid for us to repaint the upper portion of the body due to the error. Now we ALWAYS do a spray out first to verify the color(s). Below are two pictures of the same body.:eek:



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If you look at the JAN/Feb issue of the Model a News you will see Steve Ryans chicle and copra drab coupe done inthe new "brown tone". Unfortunately there is some shade int he picture but you can get hte idea fromt he hood. If you have copy of the Model A News Jan/Feb 1999 you will see the old version of c and c drab.
I hope this helps,
Ken
 
Brent,
That is almost exactly what my Copra Drab looks like (first picture). I want the correct color in the second picture you posted. What did you do to fix the problem? Did PPG give you the correct color code mix? I am in a fix as I am not sure what to do now. I have painted the windshield frame the Copra Drab that is the wrong color. Do you just scuff it with 3M ultra fine (gray) Scotch Brite pads and paint it the correct color (whenever I find out what the formula is)? I sure would have thought PPG would have fixed the problem and maybe they did, but the color code chart still has the wrong mixing codes. Please let me know what you did to rectify the problem.
Rusty Nelson
 
Rusty, I'm not sure what to tell you to do as I can show you the judging sheets on a car where at French Lick they deducted for "paint shade" in Area 14 and it is the brown-er color formula of the two pix from PPG's lab. The paint line was DCC Concept and I am droppping the Concept line in favor of using Millenium, --and now the saga starts all over again I suppose. Maybe ford1 can fill you in on his paint code #.

With regard to how to prep the windshield frame, I would use 600 grit wet/dry paper and sand it down to help remove some mil thickness too. Then shoot the new paint right over the top.


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BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Rusty, I'm not sure what to tell you to do as I can show you the judging sheets on a car where at French Lick they deducted for "paint shade" in Area 14 and it is the brown-er color formula of the two pix from PPG's lab.

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Click to expand...
Hi Brent,
I do not understand how they can deduct unless the shade is way off. How close was this color to the chip in the finsh guide???
I am trying for years to get PPG to get all our colors in concept and now you are going to Millenium???
Just wondering why????
Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken, ask your PPG jobber about Concept availability. It is being phased out due to heavy-metals contents. As for the other, I dunno. Check your e-mail.


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Mr. Terry: re: your chicle thread ... is 'millenium' you are going to a new PPG product or a stand alone? i didnt get any info when i tried google. will they have the cross codes or are you doing your own mixing?
 
For what it's worth, I had my Model T repainted last winter copra drab with a chicle drab trim and of course black fenders,running boards and splash aprons. It was done with Dupont ChromaBase and turned out beautiful. The paint codes for the Dupont are: DS094 for the copra drab and B8854K for the chicle drab. I wish I had a digital camera to take a picture of how it turned out, but I don't have one.

MIKE - AL
 
Mike S, ChromaBase is BC/CC. Not the same in this case.

Mr. Reese, good catch on my mistake. It is Essential out of the Delfleet products. Millinium is something else totally.

Tom, I agree but sometimes you are forced to judge color shades inside under artificial lighting. Andulucite Blue is another one that looks different in sunlight vs. artificial lighting.


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BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Mike S, ChromaBase is BC/CC. Not the same in this case.

Mr. Reese, good catch on my mistake. It is Essential out of the Delfleet products. Millinium is something else totally.

Tom, I agree but sometimes you are forced to judge color shades inside under artificial lighting. Andulucite Blue is another one that looks different in sunlight vs. artificial lighting.


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Click to expand...

"Compact mixing system of only 30 toners " is that going to be enough for out Model A colors?
 
I'll bet there were variations on colors on new cars coming out of henry's plants also. Especially with as many plants as there were. Sometimes at shows and I see a fully restored car, I question if the originals were as good?
Paul in CT
 
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