MARC MAFCA Merge

[Tom Endy]

Mark Schwing's post about improving the hobby should he be elected to the MAFCA board brought forth a lot of interest in MARC and MAFCA merging.

In the 22 years I have been in the hobby I could never understand why there are two national clubs. If there was a reason, after all these years most people have forgotton. It is supposed to be about Model A Fords.

If the two clubs were merged it could be called the Model A Ford Club (MAFC). The headquarters should be located in the middle of the country. Kansas City has an historical building that is looking for a tenant. The building was once the headquarters of Tom Pendergast, the era political boss who gave President Harry Truman his start in politics. The city fathers would probably love to have an organization such as a national Model A club take up residence. The current MAFCA organization could sell the property in Southern California and there would be no further need to have several hundred thousand dollars ******* in the treasury for the event of an earthquake.

There could be a national meet every year. On the even years the meet should be held west of the Mississippi, on the odd years east of the Mississippi. The new national organization should retain the services of a professional events coordinator to put the meets on.

The single club should create a superior web site that truely has a data base of technical information available to anyone who seeks it. There need be only one magazine.

Mark, if you will add all this to your platform I will vote for you twice.

Tom Endy

 

[WTSHNN]

Since we're on the topic of merging, wouldn't it be appropriate for that original post and this one to be merged together since they cover the same topic and splitting them apart will only result in two discussions of the same topic?

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Tom, let me ask you a question. In almost every city there is several churches each under the same denomination serving the same God. Why is that? Maybe another way to ask it is, ...is it better to have two gas stations in your town, or just one? Two banks or just one??

I feel the same reason these churches do not merge is the same reason why the two Model A clubs will not unite. I keep hearing all these ideas on what both clubs could do better ...but realistically, what does it hurt having two clubs? The membership dues of the 2nd club are about what we spend on one good meal out with our significant other. Other than the minimum extra cost to us, exactly what is the downside to having two clubs?

.

 

[cradlescyth]

I'll go along and pay a higher fee if mag was monthly!!

 

[quickchange]

At the risk of being lynched, I attended the MAFCA meet in Vancover & have attended many before, I learned while there that MARC meet next year will be in San Diego, Having been to a MAFCA one there years ago, know the folk, plus had a great time i inquired would there be modified in the judging ,plus a speed event , Who ever i was talking to from MARC dam near jumped down my throat, THERE will not be any rat rods here & you guys should be ashamed at modifieing anything. WOOPS im in trouble here, tried to explain that we need to encourage the young ones in by any means , they are the futer of the movement, I was cut down to size for even suggesting such an event etc may help the hobby, So from down under if this is MARC,s policy then we are doomed, This guy needs to get his head out of the sand, Hope he is not your usual member, I have been a member of MAFCA for 30 years & always found them to be thinking outside the square. Lets us all do what we can while we can to further the hobby & sport, not all will ever aggree on all. Derek as you guessed the Rebel down under. but having fun,

 

[Mark Schwing]

One of the reasons I have heard in opposition to a merger is that the national meets would become too big severly limiting possible locations. There have been three joint meets so, the last one being in Dallas, Texas in 2008. I have attended two of three and found them to be excellent meets.

 

[peters180a/170b]

Will not happen i believe in my life time.. I am 56 ,hopefully i have a long way to go..

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Who ever i was talking to from MARC dam near jumped down my throat, THERE will not be any rat rods here & you guys should be ashamed at modifieing anything.

WOOPS im in trouble here, tried to explain that we need to encourage the young ones in by any means , they are the futer of the movement, I was cut down to size for even suggesting such an event etc may help the hobby,

While I will give you the benefit of the doubt Derek, "someone from MARC" really could be anyone who thinks they have more authority than has been granted to them. Without knowing exactly who that person was, --or knowing what authority they have to make that statement kinda leaves little credibility to their statement.

On the flip side of this, maybe that person had a point! While the MAFCA states their mission a little more clearly than MARC, the mission of both clubs as I understand it is to restore and preserve Model A's as they were originally manufactured. While I realize this is not popular with some people, the cars that many people attend the National events with does not fit the mission of the Club, ...nor do very many of the cars in competition at a FAST event.

Folks, while I will respect many of your opinions and rationale, I honestly cannot embrace them. Thinking outside the box, if we encourage youngsters who drive Mustangs & Camaros to join MARC/MAFCA and participate with their musclecar, then we will likely see a huge boost in club membership however is this really the direction MARC/MAFCA wants/needs to go? I personally would not be in favor of it.
The same mindset applies to SIGs like F.A.S.T. and others similar. Do groups like this really exemplify the stated mission or intent of MARC/MAFCA? If not, then why should the club be promoting it, ...or why should they be underwriting it at these National Meets? Maybe that is one of the positional differences between the MARC & MAFCA clubs, --and if true why a merger is unlikely!!



(please understand that my 16 y.o. son & I participated at the Street Rod Nationals a few weeks ago in a banger-powered Model A tub where he was entry #9516, ...yet just a month or so prior he was a fine-point Judge at French Lick in Area 4. This proves that it does not take a modified Model A to attract youth into our hobby! He just knows how to differentiate the two.)
.

 

[quickchange]

Brent the point i was making is to encourage young folk in that are or might be owners, to explain , my 12 year old grandson raised on jappas came to spend school holidays with us, showed some interest in my slighly modified A as well as restored one, Took him for a ride & comment was boy grandad is got some go, proggressed from there to how would you like to own one, Grandad these are neat but too expensive for me, Then how would you like to start & build a Model A speedster, ?? so the 12 year old now has a frame all cleaned up & painted, Front end done & rear apart, Think i might have saved him & when he gets older will keep the A he inherits stock, If i can save one then its worth it, Derek.

 

[Dennis L Oberer]

Sorry Brent...dont agree with you at all....the reason to have more than one bank and more than one gas station is called Free Enterprise.

Having duplicate national clubs is just silly. I understand the MAFCA broke away from the MARC some years ago over some sort of dispute.

I think that the ever shrinking interest in A's by the next and the next next generations is going to force the clubs eventually to join hands and be one.

Sooner or later...I hope for sooner.

I bet if we all took a vote here on the site that a big majority of the posters would vote YES for a combined MAFCA/MARC club and the only hold outs would be the officers of the clubs and a few that think that we need two duplicate clubs.

One good reason would be to have a magazine MONTHLY which would be a good thing.

IMHO

Dennis L Oberer
1930 Tudor owned since 1965

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Sorry Brent...dont agree with you at all....the reason to have more than one bank and more than one gas station is called Free Enterprise.


I think that the ever shrinking interest in A's by the next and the next next generations is going to force the clubs eventually to join hands and be one.

That's OK Dennis. You are entitled to your opinion and I think you are correct using the term Free Enterprise because that is exactly what the two clubs are doing right now. I am however, puzzled by your comment regarding the "...ever shrinking interest in A's...". Is this fact, --or just your opinion? Based on inside information, I find this statement is actually false.

I would take you up on your bet regarding only Officers and those feeling the need for two clubs if I didn't agree with you but I think your last part is comprised of WAY more people than you realize. I will explain in a few sentances but please allow me to ask this first. Are you even a member of either club? If so, ...why did you choose the one you joined?

I will tell you that I am only a member of only one club. It is because that one more aligns with my goals & direction of the hobby. The older I get, the more I appreciate the preservation of the Model A and will choose to support a group that feels the same way as I do. If the "other club" chooses to allows heavily modified Model A's to participate, and openly promotes this as the type of cars they encourage their members to own, that is OK by me but I would not support that club unless there were other areas that they promoted that I had stronger convictions for.

I still say that based on my understandings, there is MUCH more difference between the two club's with regard to their goals and mission than what many think. Kinda like a Republican and a Democrat employed as a Senator must be the same since both individuals are politicians, both are elected, both go to Wash. DC, and both vote on laws. To someone unversed in Government, this would seem like a believable statement yet we all know that these opposing parties have differing views and agendas. The brutal facts are that I will never be able to convince you that we do need the choice of two clubs, ...and I am too hard-headed for you to convince me we don't need both of them!!

 

[Mike V. Florida]

there is MUCH more difference between the two club's with regard to their goals and mission than what many think.

PLEASE someone throw me a bone what are the principal differences in the clubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

I happen to disagree with most everyone on this subject.

I have belonged to MAFCA for 48 years and to MARC for over 20 years. I know the details of the split back in 1957 and it wasn't all that sinister, just typical Californians wanting to do their own thing and it has grown to be larger than MARC membership. Unbeliebably, the anquish of 53 years ago still remains.

I know Mark Schwing, Glenn in Camino and Tom Endy personally and many more of you that would like to see a merger. I would not. I find the clubs have separate personalities. I happen to lean toward MAFCA. I see very little differences in the "members", just the organizations.

It may be of interest that I have been a member of F.A.S.T. from the beginning. It is a Special Interest Group of "both" national clubs and has a membership of about 1500.

It is understandable that neither national club will "sponser" a hill climb or other speed related events, however there have been hill climbs immediately prior to most national meets and they have been extremely popular with large attendance.

It is somewhat hypocritical to enjoy the benefits of Snyder heads, B grind cams, overdrives and other performance enhancing modifications and be down on F.A.S.T.

To sum up my opinion, I don't believe this is about cars but about people. Model A people are family. Any thing that causes problems with my family hurts.

I will not submit either my cars or myself to judging. The stated purpose of the clubs is all about correct restoration and preservation yet, look at the popularity of hill climbs, performance modifications, long touring, hubly derbys, vintage clothing. Look at the dismally small number of participants in fine point judging at national meets. Attendance of 1000 people and 25 or 30 cars judged. Is there no message here?

There is something for everyone in the Model A hobby. I'm for comradrie, friendship and fun. I wouldn't trade a milage patch for a trophy and of course some of you disagree. My Model A's are drivers with discrete modifications and the "man on the street" remarks how beautiful and original it is. It's good for my ego and it's good for the Model A hobby.

Simmer down. Don't try to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Leave the two clubs to fill the nitches and innovate. Our hobby is healthy and in no immediate need of "change". There is something for everybody.

Richard
Anaheim CA

 

[Mike V. Florida]

If you don't know what the difference is between any two or more organizations, that is your problem.
If you don't know which organizations offer you the benefits which are useful to you, that is your problem.
If you only want to pay one set of dues or attend one meet, or receive one magazine, that is your problem.
If you don't like the decisions of others to support multiple clubs, that is your problem.
Figure it out.

Because we want to know the differences, and benefits, because every dollar we make means something to us, our wanting answers to our questions to better informed is our problem?

How pompous does that sound? "I know but you don't, tough **** on you."

Thanks, thanks alot for helping!!!

 

[Dennis L Oberer]

Just for the record I am a member of MAFCA and at a few times in the past was also a member of MARC.

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

It is somewhat hypocritical to enjoy the benefits of Snyder heads, B grind cams, overdrives and other performance enhancing modifications and be down on F.A.S.T.

Richard, I like everything you said and agree with most that you say but I do have a couple of questions.

If the Club's focus becomes the 'people', --and we change the mission from "...restore & preserve as originally manufactured." to something like "Anyone with a Model A is welcome.", does this not allow (or encourage, or invite) someone with a small-block Chev. or Flathead V8 in their Model A to attend MARC/MAFCA club functions?

I am NOT down on F.A.S.T. in any way, ...but do you not agree that many (the majority??) of the vehicles that attend these events are outside the mission of what either club promotes? They are modified WAY more than what the Touring Class manual gives allowances for. I like your comment about discreet modifications and "man on the street"!

 

[Del in NE Ohio]

It seems to me that overall interst in judging is in decline. I am the director of the Penn-Ohio Model "A" Ford Club, Inc. a 400+ member organization in Northern Ohio and Western PA. Penn-Ohio started life as a region of MARC (Penn Ohio Region) in 1955, spliting from MARC a few years later. We had a judging meet each year for 50 years, having voted to eliminate the meet when participation had fallen to such a low level. Interest in the "A"s hadn't fallen off, rather the emphasis had come to driving and enjoying the "A" . We have monthly meets around the two states and it is now all about driving and enjoying the old cars and the people. Afer 55 years in existence, Penn Ohio is still strong, but we have changed!

 

[John LaVoy]

While I will give you the benefit of the doubt Derek, "someone from MARC" really could be anyone who thinks they have more authority than has been granted to them. Without knowing exactly who that person was, --or knowing what authority they have to make that statement kinda leaves little credibility to their statement.

On the flip side of this, maybe that person had a point! While the MAFCA states their mission a little more clearly than MARC, the mission of both clubs as I understand it is to restore and preserve Model A's as they were originally manufactured. While I realize this is not popular with some people, the cars that many people attend the National events with does not fit the mission of the Club, ...nor do very many of the cars in competition at a FAST event.

Folks, while I will respect many of your opinions and rationale, I honestly cannot embrace them. Thinking outside the box, if we encourage youngsters who drive Mustangs & Camaros to join MARC/MAFCA and participate with their musclecar, then we will likely see a huge boost in club membership however is this really the direction MARC/MAFCA wants/needs to go? I personally would not be in favor of it.
The same mindset applies to SIGs like F.A.S.T. and others similar. Do groups like this really exemplify the stated mission or intent of MARC/MAFCA? If not, then why should the club be promoting it, ...or why should they be underwriting it at these National Meets? Maybe that is one of the positional differences between the MARC & MAFCA clubs, --and if true why a merger is unlikely!!



(please understand that my 16 y.o. son & I participated at the Street Rod Nationals a few weeks ago in a banger-powered Model A tub where he was entry #9516, ...yet just a month or so prior he was a fine-point Judge at French Lick in Area 4. This proves that it does not take a modified Model A to attract youth into our hobby! He just knows how to differentiate the two.)
.

Brent,

When you went to the street rod show was the public invited? One of things lacking in both organizations is the lack of publicity and marketing to the general public. We need to show people what we are doing to get them interested in getting a Model A and joining us. At all Model A events I have attended for years there are no public showing of the cars and you need to be a registered attendee to even get close! With this attitude you can see why we have difficulty in attracting new people to the hobby. A local street rod show takes over the State of California fair grounds and brings in close to 2000 rods and thousands and thousands of spectators. The specatators see what the street rod hobby is all about and have no clue to our hobby. I feel that what ever direction the national clubs take someone needs to market the hobby to the general public and seek out new blood for the hobby.

 

[steve s]

This all reminds me of a conversation I had with my dad, a Lutheran minister, fifty-some years ago. When I asked him what would it take before the various numerous Lutheran denominations could merge back together, with a big sigh he said "Some people need to die." He was right, and it sounds like that's the phase the Model A clubs are still in. Too bad; surely a more vibrant and secure big-tent is possible and would benefit the hobby.

Steve
member: MARC, MAFCA, FAST, SOSS

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

At all Model A events I have attended for years there are no public showing of the cars and you need to be a registered attendee to even get close! With this attitude you can see why we have difficulty in attracting new people to the hobby. A local street rod show takes over the State of California fair grounds and brings in close to 2000 rods and thousands and thousands of spectators. The specatators see what the street rod hobby is all about and have no clue to our hobby. I feel that what ever direction the national clubs take someone needs to market the hobby to the general public and seek out new blood for the hobby.

WOW, interesting point you make (highlighted in bold). All AACA shows do not charge the spectators for viewing however the Street Rod Nats does require the spectators to pay to view.

Steve, I love your Dad's comment! Priceless!!

Del, I think your comment is really more about perspective. Kinda like owning a green car. You decide to buy a green car because you don't think many people own a green car, --until you start driving your green car and then see many other green cars just like yours sharing the road.

.