Skip water pumps...in Buenos Aires.!!

Harylufa

Harylufa

Senior Member
Hi All FordBarns!

I ´d like to share my experience with my new water pumps I got from Skip. Water pumps arrived to my Country Argentina with out any inconvenient.
I have changed them last week and I can assure that are incredible. No leaks no problem at all. My engine is running at 72 or 78 Cº. The old ones worked at 87 or 90Cº and more that is why I begun a post refered at HIGH TEMPERATURE...few months ago.

I noticed a big change installing new pumps. I am very happy and I really recomend to install this product because it is worth.!!!

Thank you very much Skip for these modification are fantastic.

Hary
 

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Be sure to notice in the instructions that Skip does not recommend the use of his pumps with thermostats.
 
I run the original tubular type thermostats that were used in '35. They are not as restrictive as the modern stats. I have Skips early style pumps. Just ran over 7,000 mile across the country and back with no major cooling problems. Engine ran ~ 190°F on 90°F + days, traveling at 60-65 mph, up and down some pretty high mountains and across some long desert runs. Not bragging...just saying.
 
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Harylufa said:
>Old Henry!

My engine has never used thermostat. I read instructions.
Thank for reading and your advice.
Hary
Click to expand...

Haryl, Glad to hear your problem with cooling has been resolved. What Skip refers to as not to use thermostats in the summer is not to use modern stats with small flow openings. This restricts the flow of coolant and defeats the purpose of his high flow pumps. If you restrict the flow there is not much benefit from his pumps. However Bob Shewman makes 180 degree stats with large flow openings that don't restrict the flow. On the 32 to 48 Fords they fit in the upper hoses and on the 49 to 53's that type fits in the goose neck housing. Bob can be reached at 1-610-933-6637 or gadgiteer@aol.com G.M.
 
Hi GM!
One question..since I bought my car never had a thermostat. Now I have just installed new pumps, Must I install thermostat? Or I must wait till summer?

This a great doubt I have now, Is it possibly engine run cool all the time? I have never got clear which is engine temperature running

"However Bob Shewman makes 180 degree stats with large flow openings that don't restrict the flow. On the 32 to 48 Fords they fit in the upper hoses"

In case install thermostat. which one? GM has mentioned above..!!!

Please, thank for answering...

Hary
 
Herylufa,

Before buying Shewman's thermostats read this recent thread about them and several alternatives to them: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112889

Thermostats are important for two things:

1. Getting the engine up to correct operating temperature quickly and preventing it from dropping below that.

2. Keeping the water in the engine hotter in the winter for the heater.

If you don't have a heater #2 won't be a concern.

With regard to #1, it's a balancing act, meaning that, on one extreme, running thermostats in very hot weather may overheat the engine even with Skip's pumps and alleged "high flow" thermostats which would suggest not using them. But, then, the downside is that your engine does not heat up to proper operating temperature soon enough nor stay hot enough as you drive it.

If you're not driving your car in real hot temperatures in the summer there isn't much chance of overheating even with thermostats so it would probably be a good idea to use them and only remove them if you find your engine overheating and boiling over. You will most likely not have a problem leaving them in and may not have to remove them at all and can just leave them in year 'round. That's what I do.
 
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I have only driven my vehicle during the warm weather so I don't know how it will be this winter in Sacramento. I do not have thermostats installed at this time and have a pulling fan on the radiator that is switch operated. On start up it gets to operating temp. fairly quick and when I am driving around town it runs at about 160. If I am at a red light on a hot day I will turn on the fan until I drive off. I use distilled water with a rust inhibitor added. I don't have a heater and it doesn't get that cold here so I will probably stay with it. :)
 
Haryl Looks like your running at about 77 C Which is in the 170 F range. You said it's winter where you are and this sound a little warm for winter with no stats. I suspect this is running in your drive way or after driving and was idling for a while. In cold weather driving at highway speeds I would think you would have trouble getting the temp to 160 F. Thermostats have NOTHING to do with cooling your engine they only make it run warmer. You only need stats in cooler weather if you have a heater and or the engine driving at highway speeds don't get to 160 F. The only stats you can buy that fit in the hoses and don't reduce the flow of coolant through the radiator are made by Bob Shewman gadgiteer@aol.com . You do need a good WORKING 7 lb pressure cap on your radiator and fill the radiator up to the filler neck. G.M.
 
Quote: Thermostats have NOTHING to do with cooling your engine they only make it run warmer. Unquote:
Sorry GM, I realize you are a man of very extensive experience and wisdom, however I think your previous statement is a little inaccurate, So with all due respect, the following in my humble opinion, is a more accurate statement;

The purpose of thermostats in an automotive application is:
1. To MAINTAIN a CONSTANT operating temperature RANGE, to maximize the life of the engine.
2. To make the engine operate in the highest reasonable temperature range, which is where its maximum efficiency comes from.

The rest of this is just food for thought.
The tolerances specified in the manuals are arrived at, based on this predetermined operating range.
If you build an engine faithfully following the specifications, why would you not run thermostats?(that are an intergral part of the design)
If you are not running thermostats your engine is going to have a shorter life expectancy than it otherwise would have.
If we assume that we are more clever than the R&D teams of all the various engine manufacturers. (and I have never come across a modern indirect air cooled engine that wasn't designed to run thermostats)Then we are kidding our selves.
I don't know which thermostats are needed, and can't argue about the pros and cons of which ones. I just know that your engines need to be regulated by something that performs this function automatically.
The suggestion of a manually operated blind is fine, but if they were fitted, they would still operate in conjunction with thermostats.
Boiling point is 212 degrees on non pressurised system.(at sea level)
If you run a 7 lb cap, the boiling point is 240 degrees (at sea level)
If you run a 12lb cap the boiling point is 260 degrees (at sea level)
 
Bluebell said:
Quote: Thermostats have NOTHING to do with cooling your engine they only make it run warmer. Unquote:
Sorry GM, I realize you are a man of very extensive experience and wisdom, however I think your previous statement is a little inaccurate, So with all due respect, the following in my humble opinion, is a more accurate statement;

The purpose of thermostats in an automotive application is:
1. To MAINTAIN a CONSTANT operating temperature RANGE, to maximize the life of the engine.
2. To make the engine operate in the highest reasonable temperature range, which is where its maximum efficiency comes from.

The rest of this is just food for thought.
The tolerances specified in the manuals are arrived at, based on this predetermined operating range.
If you build an engine faithfully following the specifications, why would you not run thermostats?(that are an intergral part of the design)
If you are not running thermostats your engine is going to have a shorter life expectancy than it otherwise would have.
If we assume that we are more clever than the R&D teams of all the various engine manufacturers. (and I have never come across a modern indirect air cooled engine that wasn't designed to run thermostats)Then we are kidding our selves.
I don't know which thermostats are needed, and can't argue about the pros and cons of which ones. I just know that your engines need to be regulated by something that performs this function automatically.
The suggestion of a manually operated blind is fine, but if they were fitted, they would still operate in conjunction with thermostats.
Boiling point is 212 degrees on non pressurised system.(at sea level)
If you run a 7 lb cap, the boiling point is 240 degrees (at sea level)
If you run a 12lb cap the boiling point is 260 degrees (at sea level)
Click to expand...

A lot of you guys want to quote modern statements and get into the boiling point of highly pressurized MODERN systems. I never suggested running a cold engine. By todays engines with pollution equipment and engine designs made to run at 200 degrees or higher you can't compare
the old Fords and the new engine temperatures. First of all the early engines had an open vented system with the top radiator tank vented to air. There is almost NO pressure in this system but the radiator tubes wouldn't allow the water to flow freely through it. This resulted in water backing up in the top tank and with the open vent or over flow tube the excessive water flows freely out the over flow tube. This results in a lose of cooling water reducing the amount from 22 quarts to 16 or 17 or about a 20% lose. The amount of water and the volume pushed through the system is key to cooling. In mid 40's Ford put a pressure cap on the radiators not to raise the boiling point but to keep ALL of the coolant in the system. These caps ranged from 4 to 7 lbs. Ford must have anticipated this problem for a number of years because radiators in the late 30's and early 40's were set up for pressure caps but not installed. With a 3 lb pressure valve such as Skip makes or a 4 lb pressure cap the water is HELD in the system and the system can be fill up to the neck and stays filled for months. As far as expansion with temperatures lower than 210 there isn't much and the length and large diameters of the 4 rubber hoses take this small amount of expansion. Pressure in the system is generated by water temperature and at 210 there is less than 2 lbs in the old Fords. If the pressure was much over 2 lbs the 3 lb valve or the 4 lb pressure cap would release water. If the pressure slightly peaked over 3 or 4 lbs the pressure would be released in short open cycles to let the excessive pressure off. If there was an over heating or compression leak into the system the valve or cap then becomes a safety valve releasing pressure to protect the system and people. As far as operating temperatures for these engines 180 seems to be the optimum temperate as far as I determined by my testing and is a little warmer than Ford expected by the thermostats provided by Ford at the time. When I talk temperatures I'm talking of driving at highway speeds not in traffic or at idle. With a temperature of 180 highway speeds on a 90 to 95 day you have a cushion of temperature range when getting into slow traffic and stop and go conditions. At slow speeds in hot weather the poor air flow through the radiator due to poor fans allows the engine temperatures to rapidly rise. Getting back to highway speeds as fast a possible provides forced air through the radiator bringing the engine temperature back to normal in less than 2 miles. I live where it's 90 most of the year and have performed 100's of tests under the same driving conditions. Static testing can be done at a stationary position with a large house type fan AGAINST the center of the grill with the engine running at a speed of 20 to 25 MPH.
The temperatures shown in this test will be just about the same as highway driving. This is better than just trying to drive and get temperatures because the conditions change when driving. You have to LEARN how to drive these old Fords to avoid getting them hot. As far as thermostats there can't be any restriction of coolant flow or enough water don't flow through the radiator for the forced air to cool it. I have tested lots of modern stats and any I found that fit in the hoses have smaller flow opening. These will work in cold weather but even with holes drilled in the flanges will cause the engine to get hot in warmer weather. The only hose stats that I know works are provide by Bob Shewman gadgiteer@aol.com I have 4 sets in my old Fords for over a year and they all run from 178 to 182. G.M.
 
If you really want the thermostats to heat up the engine in the very cold winter Shewman's stats are not likely to do that since they are nothing more than standard stats with holes drilled through them to increase water flow both when open and when closed. So, they do not totally close off as thermostats should to warm the engine up in the cold winter.
 
G.M. My point to you, was about the purpose of thermostats.
In particular, where they related to Henry Fords Flathead V8s, from the day he built the first one, that was designed to have thermostats. (after all he was determined (for a while) to have NO waterpumps and NO oil pump,in his V8) I'm not sure how he viewed thermostats, early on.

Your point about the thermostat keeping the temperature up, was a good point, that some people need to be aware of. It is however, only a part of the function.

I was referring to the non pressured era, however included the info for the pressure systems, for those guys, that were worried about running "too hot"

Good info in your previous post. Thankyou.
 
Bluebell said:
G.M. My point to you, was about the purpose of thermostats.
In particular, where they related to Henry Fords Flathead V8s, from the day he built the first one, that was designed to have thermostats. (after all he was determined (for a while) to have NO waterpumps and NO oil pump,in his V8) I'm not sure how he viewed thermostats, early on.

Your point about the thermostat keeping the temperature up, was a good point, that some people need to be aware of. It is however, only a part of the function.

I was referring to the non pressured era, however included the info for the pressure systems, for those guys, that were worried about running "too hot"

Good info in your previous post. Thankyou.
Click to expand...

The original stats from Ford that went in the hoses had large flow openings and did not restrict the flow. The stats from Bob Shewman also have large flow openings about the same size as the early Ford stats. Bob's stats have some predrilled holes to move a slight amount of water at start up so a very small amount of water starts to move so the water isn't just sitting behind the stats. The small amount going through the holes may increase flow by a very small amount but the flow opening is sufficient for cooling in hot weather. G.M.
 
Bluebell

Contintental made a flat head 4 cylinder gas engine, Y69, for forklifts.
They had no waterpumps. Not a good idea. Some later retrofitted with a pump.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time
 
Bruce, I have been a mechanic for 40 plus years, but I haven't seen it all. only a little bit.:) The only continentals I have come across are the air cooled industrial motors. (seen on welders and bailers etc) I have worked on Clarke fork hoists with the 6 cyl. in line Continentals.
I mentioned the water pump/ oil pump bit because I wasn't sure when Henry Ford, started using thermostats in his flat head. I would guess the earlier ones never had them, but like all of us, he learned along the way.
When I think about it a bit more there were quite a few makes that relied only on thermo siphon for water circulation, but they all had a lot of radiator above the cylinder head. Little steps brought us to where we are.
 
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