Hard Valve Seats??

Dtolson

Dtolson

Member
I just bought my first Model A Monday so I know less about Model A's than anyone on earth. 1929 pickup - restored 6 years ago. My question is; should I use a lead supplement not knowing if the motor has the newer hard valve seats? I have no way to find out from previous owners what it actually has.

Thanks,

Dennis
 
Dennis,
Welcome to the hobby, friend! Have fun with the car and don't sweat the small stuff like the leaded gas question. Use what you can find at the pump, and enjoy the ride.
Unless you are using the car hard, and for long trips, you probably are not going to have any problems. If any of the exhaust valves are leaking, they need to be re-seated anyway, and you will have yourself a nice project for the winter when your car is up on blocks. Happy Motoring!
 
Dtolson said:
I just bought my first Model A Monday so I know less about Model A's than anyone on earth. 1929 pickup - restored 6 years ago. My question is; should I use a lead supplement not knowing if the motor has the newer hard valve seats? I have no way to find out from previous owners what it actually has.

Thanks,

Dennis
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Welcome to the hobby!!

Leaded gas was not widely used until the mid to late '30's. Lead was added to gas to deal with detonation (knocking) caused by hi compression engines. As for the valves, I'm told that exhaust valves, in early model cars, that were subject to engine knocking tended to get micro-welds that would get pulled apart on opening. This resulted in rough valve seats and premature failure. Lead helped fuel ignite only when appropriate on the power stroke, thus helping eliminate exhaust valve wear and tear.

A's are not high compression. Let me answer another question you have not asked yet, engine oil. ANY oil for vehicle engines will work. Any specific brand is a personal choice.
 
Thanks Chris. That is valuable information to a rookie. I look forward to many years of enjoying my "new" A model.
 
Thanks Mike,

Knowledge is a powerful tool and you guys are a powerful group for rookies like myself. I look forward to learning more about my A Model and years of enjoyment.
 
Dennis,

May I give you a welcome also. My guess is that you'll catch on quickly. Reference books by Les Andrews, parts houses and especially the Ford Barn make the repair, adjustment and restoration of A's doable and fun! My only gripe about Model A's is that I spent too many years without one. Have fun Dennis.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of A's. In addition to what Mike V Florida said about oil choice, whitewalls/blackwalls they both look good on an A.
 
Humble opinion:

For just normal operation of a Model A engine, whether used for short drives or long all day drives, with or without unleaded gas, most engines lasted very admirable over 80 years without hardened valve seats with responsible Model A owners -- they can easily make it through the next 80 years with proper maintenance & care.

But then came the money making gimmick, similar to scare tactics, that hardened valve seats were required for modern unleaded gas.

A very similar gimmick I remember that was used after WWII was where doctors advised that all children should have their tonsils removed.

Also I remember that dentist during this time used to also give small kids a hand full of hard candy lollipops that would stick to their teeth & cause cavities.

It was just reported that our U. S. Senator was just given a $26,000.00 contribution from the IRS Union during the current IRS debacle -- all of a sudden it appears she just acquired laryngitis & is unable to discuss this IRS issue.

Appears some things are recommended in life only for someone's personal monetary gain. Always wise to ask & seek advice -- we all learned a lot this way.

Hope this helps.
 
Don't worry about unleaded gas. But do be careful with E10. Don't let your car sit for over 30 days without either running the carb dry or putting something in the so-called gas to ameliorate the ethanol. I seldom let my cars sit for over two months, so Marvel Mystery Oil has seemed to work for me. Others no doubt have their own suggestions.
 
Avoid the lead supplement, its mostly oil and causes the spark plugs to run sooty. As said, when the model A was introduced, the fuel didn't contain lead. I would only replace a valve seat to save an engine that the seat was cracked or beyond grinding. There is a lot of risk that a replacement valve seat will come loose if the person that installs it doesn't know what they are doing.
 
I use non ethanol GOOD gas and mix 4 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil with each 10 gallons and use this in my lawn mowers, outboards, motorbike, and Model A, and all run just fine. If I have to get stuck with the 10% ethanol crap gas on the road, I still mix in some MMO to help it.

For winter storage always use the good gas, or run the carbs dry. I haven't tried Sea-Foam mixed with the crap gas for winter storage, but others have reported it to work OK.
 
Hi,

Newbie here too and I wanted to get back to the oil comment for a moment.

Is Zinc and phosphorous content important since it is flat tappet?

Thanks.
 
stouchton said:
Hi,

Newbie here too and I wanted to get back to the oil comment for a moment.

Is Zinc and phosphorous content important since it is flat tappet?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Stouchton,

If you do a search on the Ford Barn's previous threads on this subject, you'll come up with two million miles of threads about "zinc" or zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, ZDDP. After reading many (but certainly not most) threads, I've decided that I'll never figure out the answer. I too use Marvel Mystery Oil in everything but coffee.

Good Luck and welcome.
 
ZDDP doesn't hurt but isn't necessary with a model A because the camshaft is forged instead of cast like some later engines. I don't claim to be an oil expert, I have read this and believe it. I use Walmart 20w50. I also use a touch of marvel mystery oil to the oil and the gas.
 
Ora Landis of Schwalm's Rebabbiting highly recommended ZDDP with his new engine. Didn't I hear that Rotella (At least I think it was Rotella) had the highest amount of zinc in it? It seems that we're all agreed that a zinc additive is good for an engine.
Terry
 
Terry said:
Ora Landis of Schwalm's Rebabbiting highly recommended ZDDP with his new engine. Didn't I hear that Rotella (At least I think it was Rotella) had the highest amount of zinc in it? It seems that we're all agreed that a zinc additive is good for an engine.
Terry
Click to expand...

Can't hurt and if your rebuilder recommends it you use it. I believe it is the diesel stuff that has the most ZDDP.
 
Lead substitute & Zinc additive definitely not needed,unless you like throwing your money away.15-40 or 20-50 is ideal for the A I get mine in the gallon or 5 litre jug at Walmart.Hard valve seats not needed in the A.Change oil every 1,000 miles if no oil filter.Again,throwing money away if changing it every 500 milesas the cars are not operating in the conditions of 80+ years ago.
 
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