12V horn on 6V system, WORK???
- Thread starter Banky
- Start date
1931 flamingo
Well-known member
Maybe I'm wrong but sounds like he wants to blow a 12V horn with 6 volts??
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
As Eagle said, it might sound more like a sick cow than a raging bull, but it won't hurt to try.
Rock Hornbuckle
Well-known member
To go from 6V to 12V and maintain the same amperage. Get 2 transformers that are 2:1 ratio. Supply the low side of both with 6V. connect the the two high sides together and attach to the horn. You will now have 12V with the same amps as the 6V.
juke joint johnny
Well-known member
I have one on my truck 6 volt horn on 12 volts with an alternater no voltage reducer .
It is pretty loud but works fine !!! just for short bursts don't ride on it!!!
John Cochran
It is pretty loud but works fine !!! just for short bursts don't ride on it!!!
John Cochran
marc hildebrant
Well-known member
That only works with AC. If you do that with the DC Model A circuit, you will (If lucky) blow a fuse as a transformer is a short at DC.
Marc
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
I believe that your situation is the reverse of what the OP is posting about.
juke joint johnny
Well-known member
Your right Ross I'm going the opposite way!!!!!
I don't see that a 12 volt Horn will work on a 6 volt system
Look around the Flea markets You should find a 6 voltbeep horn for not much money .
It wont be an A horn but at least it will make a noise that's the main thing
I don't see that a 12 volt Horn will work on a 6 volt system
Look around the Flea markets You should find a 6 voltbeep horn for not much money .
It wont be an A horn but at least it will make a noise that's the main thing
Joe K
Well-known member
I have "aftermarket" ahooga horns (the ones sold by JC Whitney, Western Auto and the like) in both 6v and 12v versions.
After sitting on the shelf for a while I forget which is which. The test is to put them on a 6v battery. The 6v horns sound pretty good. The 12v horn not so much.
But I expect if a registration station inspector heard the 12v horn on 6v, and had nothing to compare it to, he wouldn't know the difference.
Just for giggles (and because they're a cheap horn) I tried the 6v horn on 12v. (We did an upgrade on a Ford 9n from 6v to 12v without changing the starter - and the starter worked fine in that application.)
Holding the 6v horn in my hand I made the connection to the battery with my other hand. The difference in starting torque was immediately felt - and while I didn't fear for my life, I didn't like the sound, or the stress put on that 6v horn.
Not recommended...
Joe K
After sitting on the shelf for a while I forget which is which. The test is to put them on a 6v battery. The 6v horns sound pretty good. The 12v horn not so much.
But I expect if a registration station inspector heard the 12v horn on 6v, and had nothing to compare it to, he wouldn't know the difference.
Just for giggles (and because they're a cheap horn) I tried the 6v horn on 12v. (We did an upgrade on a Ford 9n from 6v to 12v without changing the starter - and the starter worked fine in that application.)
Holding the 6v horn in my hand I made the connection to the battery with my other hand. The difference in starting torque was immediately felt - and while I didn't fear for my life, I didn't like the sound, or the stress put on that 6v horn.
Not recommended...
Joe K
Fred K-OR
Well-known member
Would this thing work to get the 6 volts up to 12 volts so you could run the horn???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-...t=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item3f25dde2e0&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-...t=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item3f25dde2e0&vxp=mtr
Rock Hornbuckle
Well-known member
A coil is a transformer and it works on a Model A. I have used many transformers with DC voltages as high as 400VDC without encountering the problem that you suggest. Is there something I'm missing?
Phil
Senior Member
The coil works because the points are rapidly opening and closing, making pulsed dc. Transformers require a building and collapsing the field around the conductors. Pure dc will not operate a transformer.
Joe K
Well-known member
I think he's referring to a straight AC transformer. What you're referring to was used in the early automobile radios as a '********' and interrupted the dc circuit thereby simulating a sinusoidal current for a step-up transformer.
And yes, some of these radio "step up" transformers would produce the B+ voltages for vacuum tube radios.
Gosh, I haven't thought of those radios (or the gentle hum behind the dash) since I was a kid!
Joe K
marc hildebrant
Well-known member
Rock,
Transformers operate by having magnetic fields changing and thus generating voltage (change in flux divided by time). An Ignition coil in a Model A has the magnetic field changing (ON/OFF) due to the points. This is not DC (Direct Current) but rather pulsating DC which if you break down into the Fourier Series of the pulse train, is a series of AC(Alternating Current) .
My point is not to sound like a " know it all...." I'm just trying to give you a correct answer.
Vibrating coils/points/etc. can be used to make different voltages using transformers and DC , but, by itself, DC can not be used with a transformer.
Marc
Rock Hornbuckle
Well-known member
Marc,
Thank you for the refresher. I was totally spaced out, and had forgotten that the DC I studied was derived from AC within the circuitry of the electronic equipment. Yes, alternating magnetic fluctuating fields expanding and contracting transferring from the primary inductive field to the secondary field. Hope I remembered that correctly. It's a bummer when you try to get your mind to go back 50 years for something that you seldom used after taking the class. So, I think what you refer to as "vibrating coil/points", is a capacitive/inductive pulse generator such as a beat freguency ossilator in a tube type reciever, which is causing the coil to function simular to a transformer. ????
Thanks again,
Rock
marc hildebrant
Well-known member
Rock,
Lots of stuff in your last reply....BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillators) and more....
Lets just say that the main thing is that a changing magnetic field is needed for transformers to work.
Re: 50 years...indeed. While electrical stuff is easy for me (Electrical Engineer 40 years), the basic mechanical stuff is still a challenge !
When I'm under the Model A, I have to remember which way to tighten the screw !
Marc
Lots of stuff in your last reply....BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillators) and more....
Lets just say that the main thing is that a changing magnetic field is needed for transformers to work.
Re: 50 years...indeed. While electrical stuff is easy for me (Electrical Engineer 40 years), the basic mechanical stuff is still a challenge !
When I'm under the Model A, I have to remember which way to tighten the screw !
Marc
Rock Hornbuckle
Well-known member
Marc,
It's not real comforting to realize that my long term memory has jumped into the hand basket. Last night I was trying to remember the circuitry of square wave and sawtooth generators. And still trying to remember how 120VAC was changed to B+ and neg voltage for cathodes in tube theory. I'm damned determined to remember, and too stuborn to google it. Right after studying tube type electronics, we moved immediately to (NEW) transistor theory ( I vaquely remember hole flow). That should be some indication to me as to how long ago it was. I gave up on trying to comprehend micro-electronics. I can remember resistor value markings only because of the jingle about b bad, b boys r xxxx, o our, y young, g girls, b but, v violet, g gives, w willingly, g get, s some, n now. Now it's time for one of my little brown pills, that looks like and tastes like something from a rabbitt.
Always a pleasure to communicate with another engineering discipline.
Marc, it's righty-tighty and lefty-loosey.
