non detergent oil

albertct31

albertct31

New member
I own a 1931 deluxe roadster with approx 40,000 miles on the original motor to the best of my knowledge. Do I need to use non detergent oil and/or lead fuel additive? Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
Use good quality detergent oil, ....and forget the lead additive. Remember, your engine was manufactured before leaded fuel was invented.
 
With today's oils being what they are, nobody in their right mind would use a non detergent oil. I don't think fuel additives are necessary since, fuels today are much higher octane than when A's were new and fuel then didn't have lead in them anyway. Lead was not added commercially till mid 30's when compression ratios got higher. Tetraethyllead was added as an anti-knock compound. Read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead
 
Albert, I am not an oil/gas expert but researched this question a while back. The general consensus from the posts I read was to use non-detergent oil unless your engine has been recently rebuilt. If it was recently rebuilt and has been running on detergent oil, then continue to use detergent oil or non-detergent. If you change the oil regularly enough, it shouldn't be of issue. The concern with the detergent in old engines is that it might start suspending old gunk and circulating this gunk into the engine. This can cause problems. No lead is needed in the gas.

Oh, and I will admit to adding some detergent oil in my car more than once when it was low and I didn't have any non-detergent. She still runs.

I hope this was helpful.
 
There is no one right answer on this and has been discussed many times. In my A I run non-detergent oil.. why??? because that is what the owners before me did, and it is easy to get around here. My A runs great, and I can't see the oil level change on the stick in 500 miles (yes I change it every 500 miles) so if it is not broke why fix it. Back in the day when I drove an old VW Bug the VW "experts" at the local VW dealer said that the best oil to run in them was Penzoil or Quakerstate detergent oil as they had less abilities to carry dirt around and let the "crud" settle out. This was a big deal as a VW did not have an oil filter. The old VW guys said a dirty engine will run longer than a shiny clean one because the crud gets dropped, not carried around.

You need to decide what you want to do for yourself as there will be many answers to the oil question, just do a search on this site and you will have hours of reading on this issue.
 
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I have allways been told to run non detergent oil in non rebuilt motors. I have seen my grandfather bring many old cars and tractors back to life. And was told you did not want to knock anything loose.
 
if you have a childs wagon that needs the wheels oiled non detergent is wonderful for that and filling the crank case of your air compressor, i still cant believe people are still going by instructions in a book that is over 80 yrs old, and detergent oil will not harm babbit or cause large chunks of sludge to fall off into the oil
 
I actually think it can cause chunks of sludge fall off. Last year a friend of mine changed the oil in a 9n with detergent oil. That had never been used before. All the tractor was used for was to rake hay. It developed a bad knock after a couple days. He changed the oil again and he showed me all the crap that came out with it. The way I see it. Why chance it. If you have a old motor that has allways used non detergent. Keep using it. Something must be working.
 
I would suggest, if you are going to change to detergent oil, drop the pan and clean it thourghly, also remove side valve cover and clean and flush before rienstalling the pan. This way you are starting out with a clean engine and will not have to worry about circulating crude and sluge that has built up inside the engine with the non- detergent oil.

Ron
 
I see statements like, "I've been told" or "They say" or "Somebody wrote" Or "Somebody said"-----Who are all these "Mysterious Experts"??? A friend told me that after changing to somebody's synthetic oil, his car IMMEDIATELY ran 1/8" lower on the TEMPERATURE GUAGE!!!!!??????? Bill W.
 
Any oil that is made for motor vehicles will work fine in your A. Any specific brand given is just a personal choice.

And forget about the lead additive.

Welcome to the hobby!!!
 
sethkestenbaum said:
Albert, I am not an oil/gas expert but researched this question a while back. The general consensus from the posts I read was to use non-detergent oil unless your engine has been recently rebuilt. If it was recently rebuilt and has been running on detergent oil, then continue to use detergent oil or non-detergent. If you change the oil regularly enough, it shouldn't be of issue. The concern with the detergent in old engines is that it might start suspending old gunk and circulating this gunk into the engine. This can cause problems. No lead is needed in the gas.

Oh, and I will admit to adding some detergent oil in my car more than once when it was low and I didn't have any non-detergent. She still runs.

I hope this was helpful.
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seth,
just wondering now that you are in the process of cleaning out your oil pan and valve cover area what type of oil are you planning to use? make sure your oil pump screen is not restricted with crud. maybe you should also consider putting a pump in it
 
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If you run detergent oil with the car, change the oil several times (say every 200 miles)when the sludge in the engine starts to wash out. If you have spare time (say in the fall) you might want to pull the oil pan and remove the dipper pan and clean the sludge that will be accumulated in the bottom of the pan. I prefer detergent oil. But when I first became interested in model a fords I ran non detergent. If you pull the oil pan remember to secure the oil pump with an adapter from Snyders to hold your oil pump in.
 
Waal pilgrim, as the Duke said, all I know is there are several things you need to be aware of before buying a model a. I was as "green" as they come when I bought mine in 2009. Could have certainly used the information from the Ford Barn in guiding me in the purchase.
When the oil pan and valve cover were removed earlier this year there was a tremendous amount of sludge in both areas. Can't believe those who restored this pickup would not have removed the sludge from a rebuilt engine. Seller indicated the restored truck had less than 500 hundred miles since work was done. Would not consider paying "market price" for a Model A without checking several things.

Since doing some motor work earlier this year and cleaning out the oil pan and valve chamber compartment I am running detergent oil, changed every 500 miles.
Phil
 
Greg Jones said:
Here is an interesting article that addresses the topic. Also discusses the ZDP flap as well.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?16019-Engine-oil-mythology-debunked-and-ZDP-content
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It's interesting that he says the myth started because old cars that used non-detergent oil suffered ACTUAL damage SPECIFICALLY caused by using detergent oil.

These new detergent oils gave the pre-war cars, which had been driven way past their normal life and were full of sludge and deposits, a massive enema. In some cases bad things happened such as increased oil consumption & the piston rings were completely worn out and the massive piston deposits were the only thing standing between merely high and horrendous oil consumption.
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That doesn't sound like a myth to me.

Steve
 
Mitch,

To answer your question, the pan and valve chamber are clean. This weekend I am re-doing the valve cover gasket (as I used too much sealant last time) which I know you are aware of. I am uncertain if I am going to re-do the oil pan, as considerably less sealant was used there --- I can see a little was pushed out, but it isn't a tremendous amount and it is nowhere near the amount used elsewhere. I did order extra gaskets in case I change my mind about the pan --- which I might.

Once I finish this work, I plan on using Rotella Straight Grade 30. I think it is a non-detergent oil, but I am not completely certain. Several of the folks I have asked use it. Quite frankly, I suspect that my engine couldn't care one bit if I use detergent, non-detergent, 30 grade, 40 grade, 20-30 grade, 20-40 grade whatever. I'll probably mix it up depending on what is available at the time of oil change. As I see it, I could use coarsely ground organic peanut butter and my engine would be happier than it was before I removed all the gunk/crud.
 
SteveM said:
It's interesting that he says the myth started because old cars that used non-detergent oil suffered ACTUAL damage SPECIFICALLY caused by using detergent oil.

That doesn't sound like a myth to me.

Steve
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As you know we have more than a few engine builders on this site and never once has one of them said "I have worked on an engine that failed because someone change to non-detergent oil from detergent oil".
 
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