generator or alternator

Hey Purdy,
Thanks for sharing...that not all Model A lovers/hobbiest start out with all the resources to make a show A ! And, it is so... even today with people trying to enjoy what they have..even if it is made from what they can afford. Don't knock it and/or them. Thanks for difference, eh !!


Couldn't let Tom get 'stuck' starting a fifth page:eek: !
 
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BrianM,

Whats the skinny on a Wagner 40 amp alternator that looks a little like a
generator?:confused:

TIA, Bob-A:D
 
Hi Bob-A,

The Wagner alternator has several features that make it look MORE like a generator, not identical to it. It is a single brush Delco alternator with a more cylindrical housing, mostly due to the rear end bell. Rather than the typical open slotted bell rear housing of coventional alternators, it has been squared off to a smooth cylinder. Similarly, the stamped, open-finned cooling fan of conventional alternators has been replaced with a closed pancake fan. The output connector, rather than being a molded plug-in conventional connector, has been changed to a single output post, which fits the A harness nicely. And, yes, the whole thing has been painted black.

I use the original Ford tension bracket, rather than the usual curved alternator support.

Wagner's main business is doing custom marine alternators, but they decided to branch out a bit.

Brian
 
hardtimes said:
Hey Purdy,
Thanks for sharing...that not all Model A lovers/hobbiest start out with all the resources to make a show A ! And, it is so... even today with people trying to enjoy what they have..even if it is made from what they can afford. Don't knock it and/or them. Thanks for difference, eh !!


Couldn't let Tom get 'stuck' starting a fifth page:eek: !
Click to expand...

Thanks, I just couldn't resist.
 
I am using this Wagner alternator and have been pleased with it's performance.

My only complaint is that when listening closely to the engine with the hood open and the car idling, I can hear some sort of whirring/whistling sound that I think is coming from the closed pancake-type cooling fan (and not from the bearings or pulley or belt). My fan belt is relatively new and and very loose.
Again, I only hear the sound when listening to the car idling while standing next to the engine.

I wonder if anyone else who uses the Wagner alternator has heard the same sounds?
 
CarlG said:
Page 5 coming up shortly :D
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Settings! I'm still on page three. Go to User CP (black bar above) then "Edit Options." Scroll down to "Thread Display Options", find the place to select "Number of Posts to Show Per Page." I'm set on 40.
 

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BrianM said:
I'm sure "machine girl" must be amazed by all the suggestions. I'm a relative newbie myself, but am a retired electrical engineer. My take is as follows:

I like originality as much as possible. However, as I often have to drive at night (like coming home from all our club meetings), I must admit that the stock lights were a bit anemic. I changed to 50/32 cp headlights & cranked up the brushes, but soon realized that I was pushing the generator beyond it's capability. Thanks to Tom for pointing out that the long generator is only good for about 12 amps continuously. Even dropping back to 32/32 cp headlights would put me over the 12 amps, when taillights & ignition are figured in. Besides, I feel that the 3 cp taillights are rather dim, considering that the driver behind me is probably preoccupied with his/her cell phone.

Having to continually adjust the third brush, or put up with excessive battery charge & frequent bulb failures, is also an issue. Again, I salute Tom for his internal voltage regulator, but meaning no disrespect whatever, it isn't original, although it is nicely out of sight.

Re bulbs, I like the originality of plain incandescent bulbs. The light from halogens & LED taillights just doesn't appeal to me personally, nor do the very high prices!

So, my solution is to stick with 6 volts, positive ground, but use a low current alternator. As I wince when I look at modern alternators in an A, I went with a Wagner 40 amp unit, which looks a lot more like a generator with it's fan & black painted housing. Why only 40 amps? Consider that the wiring was designed for a generator of less than 20 amps...And I have NO plans for AC, GPS, phones, nor MP3's.

I use the 30 amp repro ammeter, so the stock look is retained. The usual 30 amp safety fuse works fine. I did find two VERY nice wiring harnesses from Sacramento Vintage Ford using heavier gauge wires (12 instead of 14). One goes from the terminal box to starter and generator, the other is the instrument panel harness. Together they are only 20 bucks and look totally correct.

I use 50/32 cp headlights, 10 cp taillights & parking lights, and 32 cp brakelights. I'm amazed how bright all the lights are with full voltage on them, and I don't have to worry about moving brushes or overcharging.

That's my solution; works for me.
Click to expand...

Hey BrianM,
Ok, I've been thinking on this question and have asked a trillion people:) WHY? And , since this thread has gone askew anyway...also gone to FIVE pages , because of Tom. And, since you reveal that you are an electrical engineer...WHY...did Ford make his cars positive ground:confused: No satisfactory answer has ever been given. And, WHY (if it was a good idea)didn't auto makers stay with positive ground.
Note: I'd seriously like to know..WHY:D
 
BrianM said:
Hi Bob-A,

The Wagner alternator has several features that make it look MORE like a generator, not identical to it. It is a single brush Delco alternator with a more cylindrical housing, mostly due to the rear end bell. Rather than the typical open slotted bell rear housing of coventional alternators, it has been squared off to a smooth cylinder. Similarly, the stamped, open-finned cooling fan of conventional alternators has been replaced with a closed pancake fan. The output connector, rather than being a molded plug-in conventional connector, has been changed to a single output post, which fits the A harness nicely. And, yes, the whole thing has been painted black.

I use the original Ford tension bracket, rather than the usual curved alternator support.

Wagner's main business is doing custom marine alternators, but they decided to branch out a bit.

Brian
Click to expand...

Brian, Thanks for the info. And AL in NY too. Bob-A:D
 
hardtimes said:
Hey BrianM,
Ok, I've been thinking on this question and have asked a trillion people:) WHY? And , since this thread has gone askew anyway...also gone to FIVE pages , because of Tom. And, since you reveal that you are an electrical engineer...WHY...did Ford make his cars positive ground:confused: No satisfactory answer has ever been given. And, WHY (if it was a good idea)didn't auto makers stay with positive ground.
Note: I'd seriously like to know..WHY:D
Click to expand...

Here's something I wrote up on this topic a while ago for our club newslettler:

Why Negative Ground?​

A recent forum discussion thread on the fordbarn.com web site motivated me to go back and look again at an article in the Skinned Knuckles magazine. The article, "Why Negative Ground?" was in the September 2009 issue, #398. The simple question about a relatively modern occurrence was asked by a reader: Why did all remaining positive-ground U.S. manufacturers switch to negative-ground in 1956? After extensive research seeking an answer, the frustrated editor concludes,

"Much as I would like to announce that we have an answer, unfortunately just the opposite is true. Not only have I not obtained facts, but I am also puzzled beyond belief that the wide variety of automotive historians and curators whom I questioned could not come with a factual answer."

One U.K. electrical engineer and museum curator who was queried on the subject replied, "You have opened a can of worms..."

The SK article includes a table showing ground usage by 35 car models since 1932. Twenty five of those used positive ground for at least part of their existence. The various models that became part of GM, except for Cadillac, always used negative ground, as did Duesenberg, Essex, Stutz, and Reo. Cadillac switched from positive to negative ground after WWII. Hudson switched from negative to positive ground in 1934, and then back to negative in 1956. The "universal" switch to negative ground never occurred in the U.K. Nash Metropolitans remained positive ground, and allegedly some US car models made for export to the U.K. are still set up with positive ground.

The various creative, speculative or bogus rationales supporting one or the other grounding usage that have been offered over the years, including the corrosion thing, are briefly reviewed. The fact is that in 1956 there was a sudden consensus that it would be a good idea to standardize, but exactly how and why that consensus emerged at that moment in time remains puzzlingly mysterious.

I think it's clear that there really is no strong argument to be made one way or the other, but standardization is a good idea, and, happily, it came to pass! Too bad Ford was on the wrong side of history, but it's no big deal.

Steve Schullery
 
Positive or negative ground? Doesn't really matter..both work fine. The problem of standardization in the 50's came about because of solid state devices, i.e., transistors & diodes. The old ******** type tube radios didn't care about polarity, but the new transistor ones went up in smoke instantly if connected backwards! And the amount of electronics in cars has steadily increased since then, requiring a standard convention.
 
Hey Steve,
Thanks for adding your opinion and it was interesting read, that is, until the last statement , i.e.- about Ford being on the 'wrong' side of history. I don't see it that way at all !
My opinion, which by the way , coincidentally coincides with that of a well educated barner here:)....is that Fords' original decision , on grounding ford cars...was a coin flip.
As to why anyone would consider this subject..a can of worms..elephino(sound it out:D). Can of worms ..is usually restricted to use in serious subjects...like oil:eek:
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
I agree with Hardtimes, after all Studebaker couldn't have also been wrong! :D:p
Click to expand...

Ahhh, another well educated barner;) ! I love old stude(s) and owned golden and silver hawks, but favorite was the '53 champion with small engine and overdrive. They were also the one that people joked that you couldn't tell whether they were....'coming or going' !
 
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