Coincidence or an omen?

Will N

Will N

Well-known member
Had the T out for a fairly long drive yesterday- 25 miles each way back and forth to a car show. On the way out, car was running beautifully until I stopped for gas. After restarting, it ran terribly, and by shorting out the spark plugs found that #3 wasn't firing. Replaced the #3 coil , and it ran beautifully for the remainder of the trip. On the way home, it was running terribly after starting at the show field. Did the spark plug trick again and found that #1 wasn't firing. Replaced that coil and I was good to go the rest of the way home. Just a coincidence that 2 coils crapped out on one trip, or could this be a symptom of something else going on that's killing the coils?

PS I had it out for an even longer trip in much hotter weather earlier this summer, and had no problems with the coils.
 
Will, I have lost two coils in one day. Thought the same thing, but it was just coincidence on my end. Have you had the coils tuned up recently " I also had to laugh at the "fairly long drive of 25 miles each way", I drive that far for a hamburger. Really though, have someone with experience go thruough all of the coils for you and don't worry about it.
 
You may also want to look at your timer. Clean and check condition a poor contact to ground can cause your problem also check the coil box for same on contacts are you running on magneto? If so what's your voltage AC, use an analog meter. If you run on battery you will not get the life out of coils that you get when running on mag.
 
I've been busy lately, and this weekend was the first opportunity I had to tear into what's going on. Turns out the timer was bad as Frank had supposed. It was one of those new "high quality" roller timers I put on a little over a year ago. The insulating track had developed a bit of a "dip" just before the contact for the number one cylinder coil, and I'm guessing that as the roller hit the high side of the dip as it came across it, it bounced up and missed touching the contact properly. I had an old New Day timer that I'd taken off when I installed the roller timer, and that did the trick. Running smooth as can be again.

What could have caused the roller timer to go bad like that? Could it be that the front cover isn't installed so that the timer is concentric with the cam shaft? This could cause an eccentric rotation of the roller that might have caused it to dig in in that one spot. I do have the alignment tool for the front cover, and one of my winter jobs will be to take it off, blow out the oil line and align the cover upon re-installation.

Does anyone sell the New Day timer any longer? I checked all the major parts houses, and they have the brush for it only. It seems like a much more forgiving design than the roller type.
 
Last edited:
Getting a timer 'concentric with the cam shaft?' Man, I didn't know it would be so complicated to keep a Model T running. I'm just trying to learn the ropes of Model T mechanics. What is a good source of information on cleaning and inspecting a Model T timer, whether it be roller type or brush type. I need to read up on this subject. I just dragged home a 1925 Model T motor the day before yesterday and had hoped to start inspecting it and cleaning it up.
 
Your fingers and eyes are good tools. Does the timer look smooth, are there dips or bumps where the roller go onto the contact are the contact surfaces smooth or do they look like wash boards?
There are are lots of old style New Days out there. Most will need to have the surface dressed. Easy to do, just cut a round of wood to fit in the timer and mount a spindle to put in your drill press or hand drill. Cut a disk of sand paper and glue it to the disk with rubber cement then go for it. Most just need a quick cleanup, don't over do it. If you need a new brush, just fit a brush out or a starter or generator.
 
I chased and changed a few coils as well. I tried a new timer, the one Synders braged up last year, and barely got 200 miles of service. It looked like someone got at it with a Dremel tool, what a mess. A new Anderson timer has been great this past summer, with over 700 miles. I checked it twice, only a little dust/dirt, wipe it out, add a bit of oil on my finger.
 
Yeah Will, I got a good reaming on the other site when asking about that timer. I'm assuming it's the powder coated one. It looked good and I did install it but I no longer own the car and it only had a few miles on it. Hope the next guy's "up" on that stuff. Sounds like he'll need to be.
 
Yup, it's the powder coated one. I'm not ready to trash it just yet until I check the alignment of the front cover.
 
Will can you call my wife and tell her I may have been correct, she says I'm never correct!! Grin one for the Gipper, been there done that. Frank
 
Just an update.... If you read back through the post, you'll see that I found that the track of the roller timer I was using had gone out of round near the #1 contact. Since then, I had reinstalled the old New Day Timer that I had laying around, and it was running ok with that. FYI, the timing settings (i.e., spark advance rod lenght) for both the roller timer and the New Day timer were the same.

Today I checked the alignment of the front cover using an alignment tool. And as I suspected, the cover was indeed out of alignment. So, I'm not going to blame the roller timer's quality for it going out of round- It was my own fault for not checking the alignment before installing it. I loosened the front cover, got the alignment tool to seat, tightened the bolts and installed a new an Anderson Timer that I bought (to give that design a try). When I went to set the timing using the same method that I used when I installed the roller timer, and again when I installed the New Day timer, I found that I had to shorten the spark advance rod by almost an inch. Have you guys had the same experience when switching to and Anderson timer?
 
I just tried one of those. Got 200 miles out of it before it cratered the black plastic between the contacts. The roller still looks OK but it would have been destroyed pretty quick if I had kept driving. I reinstalled the original Ford timer, no more problems.

The best roller timer is an original Ford or a vintage Tiger or Bulldog timer.


Will N said:
Yup, it's the powder coated one. I'm not ready to trash it just yet until I check the alignment of the front cover.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, the Anco timer makes contact significantly off from a Ford or New Day timer. You can't set them using the Ford shop manual method. You must set timing by making sure the spark occurs just after TDC with the spark lever all the way up.

You will know that you have the spark set properly when there are three distinct spark settings when running on MAG.

Will N said:
Just an update.... If you read back through the post, you'll see that I found that the track of the roller timer I was using had gone out of round near the #1 contact. Since then, I had reinstalled the old New Day Timer that I had laying around, and it was running ok with that. FYI, the timing settings (i.e., spark advance rod lenght) for both the roller timer and the New Day timer were the same.

Today I checked the alignment of the front cover using an alignment tool. And as I suspected, the cover was indeed out of alignment. So, I'm not going to blame the roller timer's quality for it going out of round- It was my own fault for not checking the alignment before installing it. I loosened the front cover, got the alignment tool to seat, tightened the bolts and installed a new an Anderson Timer that I bought (to give that design a try). When I went to set the timing using the same method that I used when I installed the roller timer, and again when I installed the New Day timer, I found that I had to shorten the spark advance rod by almost an inch. Have you guys had the same experience when switching to and Anderson timer?
Click to expand...
 
Please explain.
"You will know that you have the spark set properly when there are three distinct spark settings when running on MAG".
 
I had all kinds of timer trouble. ought a used original anderson for 10$ Guy told me to fill it with grease. I did as he said and had no trouble for about five years. It was sill good when I sold the car.
 
When driving on battery there are infinite timing settings, but the voltage is only six or twelve, so it won't run best.

On magneto there will be three distinct places where the timer lever can be set that produce the smoothest operation. For starting the lever is all the way up. Cruising under 35 MPH the lever is centered. All out wide open throttle the lever all the way down.




ldj1002 said:
Please explain.
"You will know that you have the spark set properly when there are three distinct spark settings when running on MAG".
Click to expand...
 
Royce, thanks for confirming that the Anderson timer setting is different. I was pretty sure that I had it right- just wanted to tap the experience of others to confirm. So you had the same experience with the new powder coated roller timer as I had- the black plastic cratered. How is the alignment of your front cover to the camshaft?

John, the instructions for the new Anderson timer say to lightly coat the flapper on the rotating part with a high pressure grease. It doesn't say to fill it with grease. Interesting....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top