What is this noise?
- Thread starter Old Henry
- Start date
Old Henry
Well-known member
Flying out tomorrow morning to Virginia for a week to visit daughter and her family there. That's why I had to get this all decided tonight so I could order any parts I'll need tonight to have them when I get back in a week to put it all back together before the big family feed on the 10th in G'Raj Mahal.
Merry Christmas!
Find whatever socket in your toolbox that will fit over the pinion shaft splines (doesn't have to be a perfect fit) and use the torque wrench to take a reading before you touch that inner nut (or outer one). Read the dial as you are turning, not the amount to start turning. Write that number down. Next add about 12-15 in. lbs. to that number and adjust the inner nut to get this total reading. This will allow for any drag from turning the whole ring gear/axles, etc.
Note that when you tighten the outer or lock nut that the preload will increase a little so take another reading before you bend the lock washer ears over. you can loosen/tighten the locknut without a socket by using a dull chisel or punch and hammer by tapping on the nut at an angle (angle determined by practice!).
Note that when you tighten the outer or lock nut that the preload will increase a little so take another reading before you bend the lock washer ears over. you can loosen/tighten the locknut without a socket by using a dull chisel or punch and hammer by tapping on the nut at an angle (angle determined by practice!).
41ford1
Well-known member
You may want to flush the differential to remove as much metal bits as you can. Do that before making any adjustments. I'd used something like ATF or some light oil. Spin the pinion and each axel a few minutes by hand. Then drain and refill with gear oil. It might be worth putting a magnetic drain plug in. I fully get not wanting to do a full tear down.
Old Henry
Well-known member
Finally - a voice sympathetic to my plight as a novice.
I like your thinking on the cleaning and magnetic drain plug. I'll do that for sure.
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JM 35 Sedan
Well-known member
Henry, get her done the way you want to do it. Not much need for further discussion on this one.
Old Henry
Well-known member
For any curious to see what sheared off my coupler pins look at this 30 second video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN3yZgJEr70&feature=youtu.be
Old Henry
Well-known member
You are exactly right about that. The coupler is new 30,000 miles ago but the pinion shaft is original. So, to remove the slop I'd have to replace that gear and the ring gear for $200-400 or, just leave the pin out. No one really came up with any good reason for the pin to be in there. There is no way the coupler could slide far enough forward or backward to slide off so, instead of the expensive task that I really don't know how to do, I left the pin out and put it back together. I expect it to last the rest of my life just like it is.
Old Henry
Well-known member
PeteVS
Well-known member
I was just looking at post #42 with the pictures. I hadn't realized that both of the pins had come undone. Perhaps the noise started when parts of the second pin arrived on the scene and caused the ruckus. Anyway, the splines aren't gonna get any better. I doubt that replacing the pins would help.
woodypecker
Senior Member
Report back after another 25,000 miles.
Old Henry
Well-known member
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
I was totally wrong!
I finally got everything back together tonight and took a test drive. All my work was in vain and my diagnosis in error. THE ANNOYING NOISE IS STILL THERE!!!
So, all I learned from all of that effort is what the noise was NOT. It was not the chunks of coupler pin grinding on the pinion lock washer.
I guess it's just one of those noises I'm going to have to try to get used to until it either goes away or something actually breaks worse and stops me in my tracks. At least it's not there under power, just when decelerating or with the clutch in or in neutral.
Sometimes we lives and we learns. Sometimes we just lives.
I was totally wrong!
I finally got everything back together tonight and took a test drive. All my work was in vain and my diagnosis in error. THE ANNOYING NOISE IS STILL THERE!!!
So, all I learned from all of that effort is what the noise was NOT. It was not the chunks of coupler pin grinding on the pinion lock washer.
I guess it's just one of those noises I'm going to have to try to get used to until it either goes away or something actually breaks worse and stops me in my tracks. At least it's not there under power, just when decelerating or with the clutch in or in neutral.
Sometimes we lives and we learns. Sometimes we just lives.
JM 35 Sedan
Well-known member
Henry, it was surprising to me, with all the driving and long trips you take, that you did not completely go through that rear and do what needed to be done while you had it out and apart. I'm even more surprised that you put it back together, found that it's making the same noise, but plan to drive it that way until it fails, possibly in a dangerous situation with other family members onboard. This just does not make good sense to me. I usually do not like to be judgemental but just couldn't help myself on the outcome of this thread.
1937pickup
Well-known member
I feel your pain Henry-my 37 pick up has a clicking noise above 20 mph that I can not figure out. At first I thought it was a wheel bearing-nope. Checked the turtle-nope. Eelectric fuel pump-nope. Speedometer or cable-nope. Based on where the noise is located it may be the Holly fuel pressure regulator. Having said that I have AAA paid up and am driving it until what ever it is fails and tells me what it is. Hey its an old Ford and may never fail.
Old Henry
Well-known member
When I had the axle off I spun it every which way as fast as I could and could not reproduce the noise. The differential was smooth and tight. When I got it all back together and still in the air I ran it the same as I did to test it before and could not get the noise again. The drive line was actually quieter with the clutch in than in gear - just opposite of what it had been before. I was so excited. My efforts had been worth it. Then back down on the ground for the test run. Started going uphill from my house - everything grand. Got to the top of the hill and turned around to come back down and there it was again.
I'm conviced that it's not in the differential because it's the speed of the drive line. The only thing left that I can think of is the bearing in the middle of the torque tube. That's the only other thing that would be wearing out and making noise at the same speed as the drive shaft.
In response to JM 35 Sedan's very tackful condemnation, I am one that prefers finding out what the cause of a problem is before just starting to replace and rebuild things that just might be the problem. As I had no reason to believe the problem was in the differential when I had it off of the car, I had no reason to rebuild or replace that.
I'm afraid only time is going to accurately diagnose the cause of this noise so I can really know what to fix.
I'm conviced that it's not in the differential because it's the speed of the drive line. The only thing left that I can think of is the bearing in the middle of the torque tube. That's the only other thing that would be wearing out and making noise at the same speed as the drive shaft.
In response to JM 35 Sedan's very tackful condemnation, I am one that prefers finding out what the cause of a problem is before just starting to replace and rebuild things that just might be the problem. As I had no reason to believe the problem was in the differential when I had it off of the car, I had no reason to rebuild or replace that.
I'm afraid only time is going to accurately diagnose the cause of this noise so I can really know what to fix.
Mart
Well-known member
Off the top of my head - havn't really thought this through.
Old setup before teardown - pins no longer active, shaft free to move fore and aft, shaft moves forward, contacts bolt in back of transmission, noise generated.
Torn down, put back together without pins, shaft in roughly the right position. Ininial tests seem ok. Short drive with proper loads being transmitted. shaft slowly moves forward, contact remade with trans bolt, noise reappears.
I'm not saying that's definitely the problem, but it could be a possibility.
Mart.
Old setup before teardown - pins no longer active, shaft free to move fore and aft, shaft moves forward, contacts bolt in back of transmission, noise generated.
Torn down, put back together without pins, shaft in roughly the right position. Ininial tests seem ok. Short drive with proper loads being transmitted. shaft slowly moves forward, contact remade with trans bolt, noise reappears.
I'm not saying that's definitely the problem, but it could be a possibility.
Mart.
Old Henry
Well-known member
Even as doctors should do: Diagnose before you prescribe.
I got real committed to diagnosing before repairing on our first really long road trip 25 years ago in our Dodge 10 passenger van with 8 kids, my wife, her mother and sister (total 12 in the van) - destination: the northeast from Utah. I did everything to that van imaginable before leaving to make sure we had no incidents on the trip.
As we traveled across the country and got toward Massachusetts a clicking developed somewhere under the van at the same speed as the wheels. From inside of the van it sounded like it was in the rear. I finally decided it was a rear wheel bearing going out and didn't want it to fail and be stranded somewhere. So, as we pulled into Boston for what was planned to be a day of seeing the historical sites there I decided to get it fixed. At the gas station where we filled up I got a referral to a garage not far from there across the street from a cemetery. Pulled in and told them my rear wheel bearings were going out and to replace them. So, there I sat with the van for several hours as they replaced those wheel bearings while the family spent their day in Boston playing at the cemetery across the street!
Finally the repair was done and we were back on the road again. Didn't get out of site of the garage before hearing the clicking sound again!
Went back to the garage. They said to drive the van slowly down the road while they walked beside the van to see where the clicking was coming from. It was in the front right wheel! It was in the disk brake! A quick squirt of something on it silenced the noise! By the time we got into Boston all we had time to do was drive through! Lost a great opportunity to spend the day there to see the sites simply because I did not accurately diagnose before repairing! I committed never agian.
Ever since then I have resisted the natural temptation to just start replacing parts when I'm not really sure what's wrong as I'm afraid too many do and I go through intricate diagnostic procedures to know precisely what the problem is so that I can just fix that problem instead of a bunch of other stuff that ain't even broke.
Likewise, I have had my newer cars into garages that are poor at diagnosing but great at just throwing some time and parts at a problem hoping it fixes it. Needless to say, I don't go to those kind more than once. I finally found a garage that will not try to fix anything that they do not know exactly what is wrong. And, they are extremely skilled in diagnosing so that I know when I pick up my car after they've fixed it it is really fixed and I don't have to worry about going back to "try something else" when what they tried didn't work.
That's the longer explanation why I did not just "go through" the entire rear end while I had it out of the car. There was no evidence that anything was wrong with it and plenty of evidence that the noise was caused by the pin fragments. I was wrong about that but would even more likely have been wrong to spend hundreds of dollars rebuilding the ****** without any evidence it was broke.
Someday what is now just noisy may really break. Then I'll fix it. If it don't break I won't fix it.
I got real committed to diagnosing before repairing on our first really long road trip 25 years ago in our Dodge 10 passenger van with 8 kids, my wife, her mother and sister (total 12 in the van) - destination: the northeast from Utah. I did everything to that van imaginable before leaving to make sure we had no incidents on the trip.
As we traveled across the country and got toward Massachusetts a clicking developed somewhere under the van at the same speed as the wheels. From inside of the van it sounded like it was in the rear. I finally decided it was a rear wheel bearing going out and didn't want it to fail and be stranded somewhere. So, as we pulled into Boston for what was planned to be a day of seeing the historical sites there I decided to get it fixed. At the gas station where we filled up I got a referral to a garage not far from there across the street from a cemetery. Pulled in and told them my rear wheel bearings were going out and to replace them. So, there I sat with the van for several hours as they replaced those wheel bearings while the family spent their day in Boston playing at the cemetery across the street!
Finally the repair was done and we were back on the road again. Didn't get out of site of the garage before hearing the clicking sound again!
Went back to the garage. They said to drive the van slowly down the road while they walked beside the van to see where the clicking was coming from. It was in the front right wheel! It was in the disk brake! A quick squirt of something on it silenced the noise! By the time we got into Boston all we had time to do was drive through! Lost a great opportunity to spend the day there to see the sites simply because I did not accurately diagnose before repairing! I committed never agian.
Ever since then I have resisted the natural temptation to just start replacing parts when I'm not really sure what's wrong as I'm afraid too many do and I go through intricate diagnostic procedures to know precisely what the problem is so that I can just fix that problem instead of a bunch of other stuff that ain't even broke.
Likewise, I have had my newer cars into garages that are poor at diagnosing but great at just throwing some time and parts at a problem hoping it fixes it. Needless to say, I don't go to those kind more than once. I finally found a garage that will not try to fix anything that they do not know exactly what is wrong. And, they are extremely skilled in diagnosing so that I know when I pick up my car after they've fixed it it is really fixed and I don't have to worry about going back to "try something else" when what they tried didn't work.
That's the longer explanation why I did not just "go through" the entire rear end while I had it out of the car. There was no evidence that anything was wrong with it and plenty of evidence that the noise was caused by the pin fragments. I was wrong about that but would even more likely have been wrong to spend hundreds of dollars rebuilding the ****** without any evidence it was broke.
Someday what is now just noisy may really break. Then I'll fix it. If it don't break I won't fix it.
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