1930 Ford Model A...or is it a '31? (Motor/Chassis # Question)

[28-31]

Hello All:

I have a complete chassis that was (unfortunately) removed from a 1930 Ford Model A coupe restored by it's owner back in the 1980's/90's. The owner had a custom chassis built to put the body on and sold the complete original stock chassis to me.

The engine number matches the frame number -- both of which match the number on the title (which the previous owner kept with the body).

Anyway -- my question is this, the title clearly says it's a 1930 -- but the engine/frame number is A4427XXX, which if I'm reading all of the serial # resources correctly places it in March 1931, right?

Is that possible? When did Ford draw the line on model years? I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the 1930 model year would have run somewhere around October 1929 through around September 1930 or so, to make way for the new model year.

In any any event, I didn't think 1930 production would run several months into 1931...or did it?

Thanks,

-Jeff

 

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Looks like you have a 31 from the frame no. Back then they went by calendar year so the 31s were released for sale in Jan. 31. Model years moved up in the late 40's. I had an early 49 Ford that was sold in July 1948. They've since pushed model years ahead by nearly a year depending on sales predictions.

 

[28-31]

Understood - thanks

I would love to know how it ended up being titled as a 1930 with that engine/frame number (or why/when the change occurred in it's history, if it was originally titled differently with that number).

 

[Marco Tahtaras]

Understood - thanks

I would love to know how it ended up being titled as a 1930 with that engine/frame number (or why/when the change occurred in it's history, if it was originally titled differently with that number).

Many cars over the years have been sold with a lost title. When the new owner gets a new title with a bill of sale and other required paperwork then the year and description will be based on either the bill of sale or the owner's description. The DMV has no information or means to determine the model year.

 

[Chris in WNC]

it would be interesting to take it to DMV and apply for a title.
since you can show them the engine & frame numbers,
what wil the street rodder show them to justify his "1930" car?
stirring the pot......

 

[28-31]

it would be interesting to take it to DMV and apply for a title.
since you can show them the engine & frame numbers,
what wil the street rodder show them to justify his "1930" car?
stirring the pot......

I didn't know enough when I bought the chassis to ask that question of the seller, but it occurred to me soon after that he gave up what many project builders would kill for -- a title in his name with listed serial #'s that match the engine and frame. Even with the model year issue, he was in better shape then than he is now...in my opinion, at least.

-----

Thanks for the responses.

Guess I'll run some searches to find out what the differences are (if anything significant) for frames/chassis for 1930 versus 1931 (since I was originally after a '30).

 

[Bob C]

The previous owner will just stamp the new chassis with the number on the title he kept, the number on
your engine and frame.

Bob

 

[Marco Tahtaras]

Just a comment about an interesting observation. On my web site I have a page outlining Model A and B engine serial number progression, and that one page is the single most visited page on my site.

I keep site analytics and visitor logs for my site, and the logs reveal that quite a number of state DMV offices are regular visitors to that page.

I would presume they are doing checks to confirm if particular engine numbers belong to certain years. I know that DMVs also have resource books which define engine numbers, but it seems that they also (unofficially?) use my web site for Model A and B numbers.

It would be interesting to know what states or regions. I have plenty of experience with the California DMV (only). In some locales around the country it may be that folks are going in "armed" with info including your site for reference. Keep in mind that most employees in ANY DMV have never seen anything but a traditional "VIN". Some may require convincing that a simple serial number was actually used.

 

[Mike V. Florida]

Just a comment about an interesting observation. On my web site I have a page outlining Model A and B engine serial number progression, and that one page is the single most visited page on my site.

I keep site analytics and visitor logs for my site, and the logs reveal that quite a number of state DMV offices are regular visitors to that page.

I would presume they are doing checks to confirm if particular engine numbers belong to certain years. I know that DMVs also have resource books which define engine numbers, but it seems that they also (unofficially?) use my web site for Model A and B numbers.

Now that is cool!

 

[Rich B.]

I purchased a 31 Coupe 4yrs ago from out of state. I had the
Police check on the frame numbers, and DMV did title trace.
I have a 1952 title from IN that came with the car, and the
sellers title from IL, and every thing matches. The Vin# (engine)
relates to Nov 26, 1930. This was bare body, and frame, no
engine.

So, what is it?

Rich

 

[green30coupe]

More pot-stirring. If in the future the owner of the body were to report the car stolen (using the original title as proof of ownership).....you have the serialized frame and engine listed on his title. Meanwhile, if you have registered the number elsewhere it would be traceable as the VIN. Hopefully you received a valid bill of sale for the frame and engine by serial number to preclude any legal problem.

Ed

 

[Rich B.]

Maybe I should explain a little better. The guy I bought the car
from 4 yrs ago, bought it from the guy in Indiana in 99. The Indiana
owner had owned it since 1952. I have copies of all the titles with
matching vins on all.
If you ask, Ind DMV will give you a copy of the sellers title which is
what I did. I also have copies of the Police inspection.

Rich

 

[28-31]

Rich B - Sounds like your car had a similar history. Perhaps your chassis was swapped prior to '52(?)

Thanks to all for the info/thoughts.

Ironically, I share one problem with the seller of the chassis I bought -- my car ('30 Roadster) came with pretty much everything except the chassis and interior...and it came with the title (current title for my State in the seller's name, properly signed over to me/notarized/etc). However, as I understand it (experts please correct me if I'm wrong), but the engine/frame serial # was not consistently stamped anywhere into the body (I'm specifically talking about 1930 Roadsters, in case it was different for other years/body styles) -- although it seems to have been stamped on the front subrail cross support on some cars I've read about. Well, the front cross-support was not on my Roadster when I got it, so I couldn't even check that. So, now I too have a title that lists a serial # that does not currently appear anywhere on my car.

lf I want to try to straighten it out, I guess l'll have to contact the DMV and hope I get someone sympathetic to these old car situations to see if there is a way to properly correct the situation without having to assign a brand new VIN as a 2012 whatever.

I have a fully detailed bill of sale for the chassis (listing the Serial # stamped on the engine and frame), but I never had any intention of trying to use that number -- because I know the seller kept that title with the body.

It's kind of funny -- I'm usually obsessive with making sure any car I buy has zero title issues, but this '30 Roadster just caught my interest, so I took a chance. We'll see how messy it all gets, if I pursue trying to get the number (properly) stamped onto my car.

Right now, there are no "problems". My car is completely titled in my name for my state. It's registered, insured, etc. There's currently no triggering event on the horizon that would even make this an issue. However, if and when I ever sell the car (especially if sold to someone out-of-state), that may be a different situation entirely...