Engine change in 1929 Ford Model A Fordor

P.S. said:
Although I side with you guys on an emotional level ("Why ruin a good car?"); The fact is, the car belongs to him, and he is free to do with it as he wishes.
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That is always a valid point, but it is just rude to come to a group dedicated to restoration and preservation and ask foolish questions like his. It's like going to church in your gym shorts. It's just bad manners. Furthermore, he seems to know it, because he apparently has already posted the question on HAMB. Hence my troll comment. I don't like provocateurs jerking my chain. :mad:
 
700rpm said:
It's like going to church in your gym shorts. It's just bad manners. Furthermore, he seems to know it, because he apparently has already posted the question on HAMB. Hence my troll comment.
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Going to church completely naked should be acceptable if they are following their scriptures verbatim.

But, I do get your point. And, I actually agree with you. I guess the point should be made that he IS free to do with his car as he wishes, yet if he comes here talking about rodding a stock Model A, then he should expect some resistance to his ideas.

That's reasonable.

One wouldn't dream of joining a flower growing forum to ask what type of mower blade chops up flowers easiest or which ground sterilant is best to kill flowers.
 
Steve Wastler said:
What is an iron duke?
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Steve,

The "Iron Duke" is the redesigned Chevy II 4 cylinder that went in the last year of the Pontiac Astra apparently in hope of getting around the terrible reputation of the engine that it shared with the aluminum block Vega. The Vega engine was definitely not one of GM's better ideas. The Iron Duke looked like a 4 Cylinder Chevy II but really nothing was interchangeable. The advertisements of the period showed the Iron Duke emerging from a vat of molten iron. They sure tried to get the point across but the reputation of the Vega and the Astra was already established and the vehicle line was discontinued. The Iron Duke design continued as the basic 4 cylinder for the GM cehicles.

Charlie Stephens
 
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Even though we are a restoration-based forum, and there are plenty of other venues for discussions on modified cars, I think we would be well-served to be polite towards folks who pose questions that take us outside our comfort zone...

It doesn't help the resto end of the hobby to be characterized as a bunch of miserable cranks...

Believe me, I'm anti-rod / pro-stock / keep it original, but I think we can maintain our position and still be polite.

As for gym shorts in church, I can tolerate that, as long as they take their hat off... these days, it's hard enough to get people in the pews as it is...

And as long as we're talking "iron Duke", to quote from "The Quiet Man":

"The Marquis of Queensbury Rules will be observed !"

;)
 
To me if you change your car and put in a over drive, is no different than changing to a different engine. When you change anything on the A, it is no longer a original car.

I built my share of hot rods, but I also built my share of original cars. I would not change a real original to a hot rod, but that is just me. It is there car they have the right to do what they want, and we need to keep it that way.
 
It absolutely is NOT rude to come here and ask a question. It's just a damn question!! Some of you are way to high on the hog ! When you first start a project, or decide to do something with a car, you look around for forums to ask questions. You don't expect to get RUDE answers. If it's not your cup of tea, why say anything? That is the point that gets me. 95% here can be purists, so say NOTHING. He'll get his answer from someone or no one. It works either way. He will get the idea. Now making a polite suggestion of another forum that may have more info is just fine. A few did that here. And suggesting a Shay . . man I do not get that. TFF . To me, no comparison. If you think a Shay and a real Model A with a newer engine is the same . . wow. You truly don't get it.

Iron Duke? I very reliable 4 cylinder created by and used mostly by Pontiac. Get out and smell the roses. There are a lot of engines out there . . . .
 
PetesPonies said:
It absolutely is NOT rude to come here and ask a question. It's just a damn question!! Some of you are way to high on the hog ! When you first start a project, or decide to do something with a car, you look around for forums to ask questions. You don't expect to get RUDE answers. If it's not your cup of tea, why say anything? That is the point that gets me. 95% here can be purists, so say NOTHING. He'll get his answer from someone or no one. It works either way. He will get the idea. Now making a polite suggestion of another forum that may have more info is just fine. A few did that here. And suggesting a Shay . . man I do not get that. TFF . To me, no comparison. If you think a Shay and a real Model A with a newer engine is the same . . wow. You truly don't get it.

Iron Duke? I very reliable 4 cylinder created by and used mostly by Pontiac. Get out and smell the roses. There are a lot of engines out there . . . .
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I use to rebuild that same engine in the postal trucks here. They were good engines.
 
Noblebeidoun said:
Hey guys! i had some questions, me and my son are looking to put a 2.5 iron duke with a T4 manual tranmission into our Model a, and we were wondering if the iron duke would fit in the engine bay? and also what rear axle to go with? thanks fir your help!
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I have been down the path you are about to embark on. In 1985 I was almost finished restoring my 1932 Ford roadster and decided to change course with a later engine. I wanted an engine that could be reliably built by a modern speed shop. I wasn't happy about what I was hearing about the shops that rebuilt the Model A/B engines (which based on current posts hasn't changed much) I wanted a little more horsepower and reliability but not a cookie cutter hot rod with a small block Chevy. My desire was to change as little as possible so the car could be restored easily in the future. I elected to go with the 181 cubic inch Mercruiser Marine engine. Although few of the parts are interchangeable this engine is close to the Iron Duke in size (yes, in answer to your question the Iron Duke will fit fine into your engine compartment) and displacement. There are a lot of fortunate coincidences that make this engine a good choice for a 1932 and only slightly more work for a Model A. The Mercruiser is a next generation of the 153 cubic inch Chevy II passenger car engine. It never made it into a car but was used in Mercruiser Marine installations and as an industrial engine by GM. Almost everything on the engine except the block, crank and cam was common to the other GM engines making it relatively inexpensive to build. The bolt pattern at the back of the engine was the same as a small block Chevy engine which made it easy to adapt an early Ford transmission, which is a bolt in for a 1932. Be sure to check the bolt pattern on the back of the Iron Duke, I think I heard the rear wheel drive engines were the same as a small block Chevy but the engines from front wheel drive cars was different. The brake pedals and front wishbone attach to the center cross member in the 1932, a problem that needs to be addressed in the Model A that can probably best be solved with aftermarket brackets intended to install an early Ford V8 transmission in a Model A. The stock frame, rear end and steering was very compatible with the engine. I elected to find a generator instead of going with an alternator (the same bracket might work on an Iron Duke). The engine fit very well in the engine compartment (which is the same size as a Model A). I actually needed a long spacer to get the fan close enough to the radiator. A coat of Ford engine green paint made the engine almost look like it belonged there. From a practical standpoint the conversion was a great success. And now for the down sides of the conversion. The main problem came with the lack of acceptance from the restorer crowd. You have been given a firsthand example of this with the responses to your post. Some people bemoaned to lack of acceptance in the posts but I feel it may have given you an important insight about what you will be dealing with in the future. From the outside my car looks stock with Brewster Green body, black fenders and apple green wheels. This doesn't fit very well with the hot rod crowd. Maybe a little speed equipment would have helped me get accepted by that crowd. I built the car to keep and still have it. If I was forced to sell I would take a loss due to this choice of an engine. As I have gotten older and more conservative I am seriously considering putting an original engine back into the car. That is my next project. I am sure glad that part of the criteria in selecting this engine was that I could restore the car at a later date if I decided to do so. In closing my advice would be to add a little speed equipment to the stock Model A engine and convert to hydraulic brakes.

Charlie Stephens
 
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The nice thing about public forum, you get a very broad base of opinions, and if you ask a question, be ready for any and all opinions. Rarely do I post a negative response, but any moron could visit a few threads and see this is a restoration forum not a chop and change forum. My post was because I dont get the mentality of this guys interest, I did not bash him, just stated I didn't get it. Pete, if you didn't understand my reference to shay, YOU are the one that didn't get it....
 
Charlie Stephens said:
In closing my advice would be to add a little speed equipment to the stock Model A engine and convert to hydraulic brakes.

Charlie Stephens
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No not hydraulic brakes those are for people who cannot make proper brakes work, trust me modern cars with those brakes have seized wheel cylinders all the time.

The H.A.M.B. posting was from like 3 years ago?
 
dumb person said:
No not hydraulic brakes those are for people who cannot make proper brakes work, trust me modern cars with those brakes have seized wheel cylinders all the time.
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I would go to hydraulic brakes for two reasons. One is that his son is driving it (I assume) and he needs the best brakes possible and the other is if he ups the horsepower and leaves he brakes alone and has an accident a smart lawyer would say that it was the fault of the old brakes that weren't compatible with the higher horsepower. Having said that I will be the first to say that good mechanical brakes are better than poorly designed and installed hydraulic brakes. What kind of modern cars do you drive, I have never had or heard of a seized brake on a modern car? Maybe your living on a South Pacific Island puts more salt in the equation.

Charlie Stephens
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Have had mumerous times where brake cylinders on the rear drums of my cutlass froze and both my explorer and f150 have experienced frozen calipers. None of which are my daily drivers, the cutlass is inside, has been for 25 years, but the other two are outside, one of the worst thing for a modern vehicle is for it to sit for periods of unuse. I believe there is another froze caliper on my explorer, it's on the to do list
 
Steve Wastler said:
Could be that conventional brake fluid does draw moisture, whereas the silicone brake fluid doesn't.
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That's true and the disc rotors like to rust when the car is outside and not driven for a week or two. Sometimes they rust in one spot and thump as you drive away. This likes to eat up the pads. With road salt in Minnesota it's not unusual to have the slides or pistons on disc brakes rust tight.
 
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fordgarage said:
You called it!
There needs to be a special title above the avatar not just for trolls, but for morons and village idiots as well.
And then a provision in the forum where we all get to vote (once) on what each others title should be.
And then when someone achieves a certain title(s), the rest of us get an opportunity to vote them off the island :D

I think I will go vote now.
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That would result in a forum where everyone but 1 user is banned.
 
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