Interior Install Help?

Dal's Dream Car

Dal's Dream Car

Member
Hoping for some help here. Everything is coming along nicely with the interior on my 29 Tudor. I begin to put the rear window riser cranks in and can't figure out how to get the pin into the handle with the escution on. I have put some mechanical pressure on the escution but cant get it deep enough to sink the pin (see pic) and I dont want to crush the escution. Do I need to dismantle the interior quarter panel and remove coils from the spring??. Thats not the only problem..I have, what appears to be, the original males for the handles on 3 that have a diagonal slot and one with a 1/8 hole going straight through. (hopefully my pics load this time.)

I have searched the internet and cant find any instructions on installation. I did not remove an existing interior so I have no reference.
 

Attachments

  • PA250149.jpg
    PA250149.jpg
    73.5 KB · Views: 105
  • PA250150.jpg
    PA250150.jpg
    80.5 KB · Views: 97
  • PA250151.jpg
    PA250151.jpg
    77.1 KB · Views: 95
I removed the springs around the rear window cranks, which allowed the escutcheons and handles to go on. That wasn't necessary on the front doors, and it seems to have had no detrimental effect on the rear panels. My original 29 Tudor handles are held on with pointed set screws that fit into the groove. I don't know what the hole is for, but I've got them too. BTW, it looks like you are using later deluxe escutcheons (A-47525); the correct type for the 29 Tudor are much simpler and may be less deep also (A-47530).
 
Just a THOUGHT, maybe you could re-drill the shaft holes in a better location??? Chief always said, "The easiest way is the best way, if it does the job PROPERLY." Bill W.
 
I was going to say the same thing. Loose the spring. It's not needed. Even after that, getting that little pin inside the handle is just a bear! It's always a workout.
 
Like 700rpm stated, I don't recall my '29 having those jazzy escutcheons. The pieces you have look nice, but may indeed be deeper.
 
Should have mentioned, I hold the pin with a pair of needle noise. Try to get it in just a little, then use a small punch and hammer to tap it in. Before you even get that far, start off by making sure the pin even fits in the hole. Some times that puts up a fight as well. I've even ground the pin into a little point before. Good luck. It can be tough but you'll get it
 
I don't like going without springs as without SOME tension the escutcheon can move and damage the cloth.

There are a few things to consider here. Yes, the proper escutcheons were round but they won't buy you anything dimensionally. Since you say three have pin holes is there any chance they are repros? As I recall repros are problematic in that the stems don't protrude equally (shorter). If they protrude equal to the one with the diagonal slot then they are likely original but have been replaced. The slotted type was used on Ford bodies (Coupes, Tudors, etc.) until early '30, about March/April if I recall correctly. As noted the original standard window cranks were installed with a sharp pointed, hardened set screw. They entered that slot and spread the square of the shaft inside the crank to hold it tight.

If you want to stay with the later type handles AND the three other mechanisms are originals then it should go. The pic looks to me like it will but does require considerable pressure. First be sure the pin is NO LONGER (and no more than a few thousandths shorter) than the diameter of the window crank and that is slides through cleanly. Then make sure you can slip the crank on the shaft and slide the pin through and back out without the escutcheon in place. With repro parts you could be fighting something you ASSUMED was correct.

I usually add a slight chamfer or taper about 1/32" deep only, to one end of the pin so it doesn't hang up on one of the layers going in. I then start the handle on and slip the pin in (taper first) until it stops against the shaft. With the door closed for support I then press VERY hard on the escutcheon and handle and tap lightly on the pin with my tack hammer. Once is starts in I tap it as far as I safely can with the hammer and finish it with a small punch until the escutcheon snaps out over the top end of the pin.

Now, the original slotted shaft will need to be drilled. In this case you are best off removing the panel for the best angle with the drill and to not risk damage to the fabric. If you have a drill small enough to get in there with the panel on then protect the panel with a thin sheet of cardboard like from a cereal of soda can box. You will have to accurately locate and drill from both sides so the two points align. That diagonal slot cannot be drilled past as the cutting tip angle of the drill bit cannot start a hole at the 45 degree angle of the second part and instead will want to force the bit off to the side destroying your hole and possibly breaking the bit. However if you do what I described about 1/32" undersized and get it fairly accurate you should be able to get a very clean hole at the finished size working from one side.

Ok, down to my last option. Get the proper standard handles that use a setscrew. You WILL have a problem getting a bite with the setscrew in the later style shafts. You will think you have it and you close the door and the handle will pop off onto the floor. The solution isn't too tough. You want to mark the shaft where the setscrew wants to bite. The shaft is also fairly hard so the mark will be very subtle. Go through the installation process again pressing very hard on the handle and escutcheon. Tighten the screw as tight as you can safely. While maintaining pressure on the handle go ahead and loosen the screw and release, and remove the handle and escutcheon. If you have a clear and identifiable mark from the set screw then carefully file a shallow notch at that point with a sharp edged three corner file. The setscrew will now have a secure place to purchase on. Again, USE CARDBOARD to protect your fabric from the file!

One final point of interest. Occasionally the mechanisms have enough wear and slop that the pressure created from the window crank/escutcheon installation will make the window more difficult to operate than it was prior. I've only seen a couple examples of this.
 
If you are using springs, make sure that. as the spring is compressed, the coils will compress to a perfectly flat spiral, without the wire overlapping itself. The repro springs will need some work- you will need to cut off about one turn from the inside, and bend the wire so that it will compress flat, without the inside end resisting the pressure.

Doug
 
Try putting the panel on, then a flat washer. Use your pin to ride on the washer, place the escution on, and the handle should fit.
 
I did the interior in my 60B Briggs blindback this last winter. I had a box of original springs & found that the origs. are much weaker then what the suppliers now have. I took a rod about 10" long that fit through the hole in the square shaft. I slightly tapered the end of the rod. Getting the rod through the hole was easier then using a needle nose & the pin to start the pin. I only inserted the rod 3/4 of the way through the hole but this held the spring compressed & with a little more pressure I inserted the pin from the other side & pushed out the rod.
 
Careful when tapping on the pin with any item. Just broke the square shaft on the riser mechanism while "lightly" tapping on my '29 Town Sedan. Mine are some sort of chintzy metal...however not meant to be hammered on either.
 
Smurkey said:
Careful when tapping on the pin with any item. Just broke the square shaft on the riser mechanism while "lightly" tapping on my '29 Town Sedan. Mine are some sort of chintzy metal...however not meant to be hammered on either.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea where those repair parts came from? It sounds like they were cast instead of machined steel like the originals.
 
I knew I could count on everyone in this forum for help. Thanks to all. For the odd ball, presumably newer, stem, I was able to get a cotter pin to line up and tap in between the escutcheon and handle. I put a washer over the stem first so that the raw end of the cotter can't catch on the fabric. Once the cotter fell into place I set the screw and one turn of the handle bent the raw end of the cotter against the inside of the escutcheon. Viola! I don't know how I would ever get it off but it works perfectly.
As for the original stems with the diagonal slots I will employ all of the expertise in this thread. Marco, good call with drilling the stem from both sides, I was wondering how that would go with a diagonal plane to drill through, however, this leads me to question...did the originals even use a pin? If so, why is there no hole on the stem for them?
 
Dal's Dream Car said:
I knew I could count on everyone in this forum for help. Thanks to all. For the odd ball, presumably newer, stem, I was able to get a cotter pin to line up and tap in between the escutcheon and handle. I put a washer over the stem first so that the raw end of the cotter can't catch on the fabric. Once the cotter fell into place I set the screw and one turn of the handle bent the raw end of the cotter against the inside of the escutcheon. Viola! I don't know how I would ever get it off but it works perfectly.
As for the original stems with the diagonal slots I will employ all of the expertise in this thread. Marco, good call with drilling the stem from both sides, I was wondering how that would go with a diagonal plane to drill through, however, this leads me to question...did the originals even use a pin? If so, why is there no hole on the stem for them?
Click to expand...

The pin was only used on Briggs and Murray bodies (different mechanism and handle style, Cabriolets and Fordors) until about April '30 when the Deluxe Coupe was introduced with handles and escutcheons similar to those other models, and that was the transition period. The original "plain" handles didn't have a pin hole unless a small number were made with both that and the set screw during the transition period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top