Trouble with flathead timing and fuel pump?

L

lorenzoayala

Junior Member
Hey guys Im having trouble getting my 1946 super deluxe started me and my grandpa are a little confused with how the timing should be set. We read in a repair manual that rotor should be pointed upward with a 3/8 inch space off the bolt hole. We were also wondering which wire should fire first because the setting the book says it starts firing on the 2nd or 7th wire.

When we initially tried to start the car it turned over but we weren't getting any suction in the fuel pump this is after we bought a tune up kit for it. Then we thought our battery didnt have enough charge to start the car since its been sitting for so long. It is fully charged and we are wondering what could be wrong bad pump bad timing?

Thanks I know its alot but I have gotten great help from the guys on here!!!

Cheers
Lorenzo :confused:
 
First of all where are you located?? Second which dist do you have on that 46,correct one would be the rabbit eared one.The inside cap has # of plug wire that goes in that hole.Wires going in must be in correct holes corresponding to plug #.// 1,2,3,4 on pass side and 5,6,7,8 on drivers side.Set index plate on side of dist to1 line below middle.You can convert 46 type dist to 42 crab by changing a few parts. Much easier to work with the crab type. As far as fuel pump what you bought for that was probebly a made in China kit. Not so good. If you need a good orig all metal one rebuilt with USA parts i have them. Fix the timing first then think about replacing the pump. Ken ct Any ques.call or email me. IGADORE@SBCGLOBAL.NET 1-203-260-5945 cell.
 
A 46 you should have the crab dist ,You should remove it and clean the points .Set them at 15 then move the timing slide up one Notch .(Sorry Ken ) This will be close enough to get you started you can roll it over on the starter while creating a gap on the plug lead of 3/16 to ground or use a screw driver shoved up the connector you should get a blue spark ,put a 1/4 cup gas down the carb, it should run for a min or so .you can check the wiring by the no on the cap No one plug is on your left 1st , there are 2 wires that crossover from one side to the other
 
It almost sounds like you have 8BA engine it that car. That's 49-53 engine with the dist up top on right hand side if the engine. If that's the case let us know and we;ll tell you how to time it. Walt
 
#1234 are on the right side [pass] on usa models Ted,always looking fron the drivers seat.Crab is only used on 42-45 //// 46-48 use the rabbit eared one. 42 is the only one refered to as a crab because of the cap. ken ct usa LOL Ted.
 
If the car has been setting a long time, you may have congealed fuel deposits in the line or pick up tube in the tank. Force some air into the tank and see if it comes out up above at the pump to firewall connection. If yes, then the pump does need more scrutiny. Could be carb float problems too.

Timing is fixed pretty much on the old front mounted distributor but can be altered internally as was mentioned. There is no reason the timing should have changed though unless someone worked on the distributor since the last time it ran. The old condenser might have given up or possibly the ballast resistor under the dash. The coils can eventually give you trouble but check the easiest thing first and work your way in if you can't find the trouble. You should be getting power at the coil with the switch on so thats a good place to start and check your ballast resistor too.
 
Yes ken it is a rabbit style distributor. Can you explain to me a little more about the index plate part? We had our tank boiled a month ago so other than our pump the fuel system is a go. I know the old ignition wire set wasnt stock so that is what makes me to believe the timing had been messed with ill try and get a picture of what the manual said to set the timing at. The back of the distributor has two prong like thing that line up with the engine. we turn the crank so that the engine slots would line up with the new setting on the distributor which was a 3/8 inch space from the nearest bolt hole on the distributor it says to measure this with two straight edge rulers which we did. It is also a 59ab flatty. Going to try and fire it up later on. All advice welcome

Is any of this making sense or am i going about the timing all wrong??

Thanks for all the help
Cheers
Lorenzo
 
Hey Lorenzo,
If you can take pics of what it is that you have for equipment, I've ALWAYS found more interest/help from the experts here with pics, as sometimes our words/knowledge does not translate easily to mental pictures,eh

That being said, may I inquire how old You and Grampa are? Love the idea that you two are working together on this flathead equipment!!
Regarding 'index plate'...look at the aluminum base of your distributor(NEAR BOTTOM) . There you will see a screw(for tightening/setting adjustment)...AND some 'hash' marks. When the screw is loosened , you can adjust timing by moving dist case to right and/or left...then tighten screw to set..while test running for possible further adjustment..clear? no??
BTW- GOOD on you for involving Grampa and vise versa ! I pick the brain of my 93+ year old father in law about these old cars..all the time. He gets a kick out of contributing also~

Additional: If you find that you can NOT get the engine to fire in proper sequence of cylingers (but find that you do have fire power and gas) Pull the number ONE spark plug and put #1 piston on top of compression stroke. Then make sure that #1 plug wire is in dist cap marked with #1. In fact, it sounds like you are suspecious of something in the wiring...as it is not original. If it were me, I'd take the outer cap to where you can see it and its' numbers and ascertain that all plug wires are in proper holes. Mabe a mirror and light and effort can ease that chore with cap still in place?
 
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lorenzoayala said:
Yes ken it is a rabbit style distributor. Can you explain to me a little more about the index plate part? We had our tank boiled a month ago so other than our pump the fuel system is a go. I know the old ignition wire set wasnt stock so that is what makes me to believe the timing had been messed with ill try and get a picture of what the manual said to set the timing at. The back of the distributor has two prong like thing that line up with the engine. we turn the crank so that the engine slots would line up with the new setting on the distributor which was a 3/8 inch space from the nearest bolt hole on the distributor it says to measure this with two straight edge rulers which we did. It is also a 59ab flatty. Going to try and fire it up later on. All advice welcome

Is any of this making sense or am i going about the timing all wrong??

Thanks for all the help
Cheers
Lorenzo
Click to expand...
Call me this much typing is making my hand hurt.Easier to answer on phone. 1-203-260-5945 Forget all this turning the crank to line up the dist with the ruler bit. Much easier way. ken ct.:)
 
Hey guys so finally got everything in order and put back together but we aren't getting any suction from our fuel pump. Any trouble shooting ideas you can help us out with?
We replaced the diaphragm changed the valves we are stuck!
 
Is the fuel line from the tank to the pump obstructed? (Can you blow through it?) Is the flex line just ahead of the fuel pump OK. I'd check those next.
 
If it dosent suck the valve is not working in the pump the intake one. ken ct. or your line is plugged up.
 
Yeah we cleared the lines no obstructions we just took a look at the valves again and they seem to be fine can it be something with the push rod? we have the valve from the bowl sticking out and the valve to the carb is flush did we put them in right?
 
yes there in right,could have a weak spring in it andeverything must be sealed ie top on with fiber gasket under the top cover bolt with a cork gasket of the correct size under it. {Is this a glass bowl pump or all steel one.} Glass bowl must be on there with cork gasket and tightened to build up sucktion or else it wont work, ken ct. Where are you. call. Did you put new gaskets under the valves? Is there a small bracket holding them in with 2 small screws? Where are you??
 
Im located in Anaheim. Im planning to have my grandpa call you tomorrow ken as ill be out of town. Do you have a time that we should call you? Yeah we have a glass bowl we have all the right gaskets. But our valves just push in. There are no screws or brackets that need to go into the valve holes. We are thinking it has to be the push rod when we turn the car over the push rod has very minimal up and down movement. Also is there a chance that the spring can have to much pressure to move up and down?
 
lorenzoayala said:
Hey guys so finally got everything in order and put back together but we aren't getting any suction from our fuel pump. Any trouble shooting ideas you can help us out with?
We replaced the diaphragm changed the valves we are stuck!
Click to expand...

Hey lorenzo,
Well, I just put my pump and helmet dist and rewiring in today. I had to change the burnt out elect pump and redo the mechanical pump..which was not in working order. I found that someone had put AN INCH TOO SHORT fuel push rod into my engine. With the correct pushrod it fired right up today:)! Prior to firing up, I put fresh gas into gas tank and removed gas line off of mechanical pump....into a quart container. Used my compressor to 'pressurize' the fuel tank and fuel soon came out of the fuel pump line (NO obstructions,eh). Reconnected fuel pump line, put a small amount gas into carb throat and she started right up. Haven't heard her run before...ahh what a beautiful sound of duals running thru fentons:D ! Super quiet after running 15/20 minutes too!
I installed the helmet dist by matching rotor with NUMBER one wire and slot in cam, with #1 piston on TDC compression stroke. Not having done this for many decades...was foggy memory, but persistence (2pm/7pm) prevailed and was well worth it !

BTW- my engine is a '36, which can utilize TWO different length fuel push rods....depending on which INTAKE manifold used. Not sure what you '46 situation would be without research.
 
Call after noon time today as i will be in an out all morning EST.He really can call anytime as its my cell # after 9 AM est. That pump with the pressed in valves CANNOT be rebuilt as i cannot succesfully replace the valves in it with new ones.Im talking about the small spring in the valve itself. I have pumps rebuilt that are rebuildable again if need be in the future.Cast iron intake used a 8 7/8" long rod,it only moves up+down .200 [less than a 1/4"] . ken ct.
 
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