Oshkosh scores part 1

Dean, Marco, Rusty, and Mark

Thank you so much for the kind words.

I also want to thank all of those on FordBarn that have answered so many of my questions over the years. If Marco charged a dollar an answer, I would surely owe him several hundred dollars. I would also like to personally thank Tom Wesenberg for the many questions he has answered during my 12 year restoration. When I was running out of steam a few years ago Will Cronkrite provided encouragement to me after seeing my partially completed restoration.

It was so great to be around folks like Will Cronkrite, Gary Karr, Dean, Jim Brand, Gary Johnson, Doug Clayton, Doc Kalinka, Rusty Nelson, Brent and many others at the meet.

Again thank you for helping me - Hunter
 
These type of discussions over "touring class" points are not the same as "fine point" are puzzling to me.

I thought that the idea of getting points was to enhance the enjoyment of the Model A hobby by learning more about the Model A.

Instead, it sounds like an argument for the sake of an argument.

Marc
 
Now, now all, let's not forget that Henry never made a 500 point car. I do agree that there should be a distinctive point differential between the fine and driving classes. White walls on a touring car is a personal decision, they were available as a dealer install and/or tire store replacement, however I personally would NEVER put them on a Model A. Nuff said, let the battle begin...
 
marc hildebrant said:
These type of discussions over "touring class" points are not the same as "fine point" are puzzling to me.

I thought that the idea of getting points was to enhance the enjoyment of the Model A hobby by learning more about the Model A.

Instead, it sounds like an argument for the sake of an argument.

Marc
Click to expand...

Marc, imagine if I/we were to tell you the honest truth that there were 4 Model-A's all in judging within the same building at Oshkosh that scored more points (500 points) than Will's 1930 Delivery ...which "only" scored 491. To the "unknowing" it sure sounds like those other Model-As are better than Will's truck. Do you feel that is fair?

.
 
Jim/Alabam said:
Now, now all, let's not forget that Henry never made a 500 point car.
Click to expand...

I understand your point Jim, but on the other hand wouldn't they all have been 500 point cars when they left the assembly line?

Jim/Alabam said:
White walls on a touring car is a personal decision, they were available as a dealer install and/or tire store replacement, however I personally would NEVER put them on a Model A.
Click to expand...

I like the way you think! ;)



Deron
 
Brent,

To be honest, I do not know much about the scoring/point system with regard to the different classes. The quest to get a high number seems like a great way to learn more about the Model A with regard to how and why it was made.

Beyond that, I do not understand the passion that causes the arguments.

Marc
 
I think T-C should go on a different point system. So many times [the people NOT in the know] would say to me wow another car score 500 points.[they don't say in touring class].. That's in tour class i would say [and then they have the balls to argue with me]. I have seen some for sale car ad's stating MARC winner . 500 point car... and not say touring class ..very dishonest would you not say...
 
peters180a/170b said:
i think t-c should go on a different point system. So many times [the people not in the know] would say to me wow another car score 500 points i have seen some for sale car ad's stating marc winner . 500 point car... And not say touring class ..very dishonest would you not say...
Click to expand...

so so true!!!!!
 
I'm a pessimist and a cynic so I just assume people are going to exploit most anything for their own personal good.

Let's say touring class drops their point system to 400 instead of 500 in order to make a distinction between the two types of events. What is to stop someone from achieving 400 points in Touring Class and saying that they received a "perfect score" in MARC judging. Technically isn't a lie.

I believe that AACA doesn't reveal scores; is that true? Maybe the clubs should look into keeping the scores private and allowing all the cars in that spread to be known only by their award title.

Fred brings up a point I was also thinking. I see plenty of Model A's advertised as having "30 trophies." "10 best in class awards" etc. Those numbers sound really impressive. But how many of those were Participation trophies given out to the first 200 cars that entered the show that day? Or for best in class? I won a best in class award with my A once; I was the only A in the show, but from the way the award reads my truck is a superstar Model A.

Is the concern about points just a way of ensuring fairness in description for later resale or is an attempt at putting more prestige to the Fine Point style of judging? If it is an attempt at preserving some level of honesty amongst sellers, there are a hundred other abuses of wording in Model A advertisements that would seem to be more pressing than a point total.

Finally, it is just as possible that a Fine Point car could be misrepresented through sales claims. I can show you a Fine Point MARC of Excellence winner that was advertised as such, wears its MOE radiator badge proudly but has rubber valve stems, an alternator and almost every NOS piece that was on it at the time of judging removed. Is it still fair to call that car a MOE winner? That gives you a car purported to be a Fine Point MOE but would be much better suited in Touring Class.

Buyers and sellers need to realize that a score on a car is representative of only that car on that day, at that moment, with those judges.

I have no problems with Fine Point cars and I have no problem with touring class cars. I spent equal time looking at both last week in Osh Kosh and wish the owners of all the cars nothing but the best.

Just my ramblings
-Tim
 
As far as touring class...I don't play the game, so i won't try to make the rules. Fine point, and TC are two different games...two different standards.


Fact: Since the institution of TC more cars are being judged at the national meets.
Fact: more TC cars are entered than fine point.
Fact: few if any 2nd and 3rd place fine point cars are found in judging fine point.

Draw what ever conclusions you'd like.

As for the honesty of the the seller / owner? buyer beware....
 
Fred said:
Here is one for you, But not a MARC or MAFCA car... (Must be close) ?? E-BAY #110899169634..
Click to expand...

Sheesh, when you've been voted the best Model A in the whole state of Florida, who needs a MARC score? :rolleyes: I can honestly say that my lowly eyes have never witnessed such a DeeLux Model A in all my life......


Deron
 
dlshady said:
Sheesh, when you've been voted the best Model A in the whole state of Florida, who needs a MARC score? :rolleyes: I can honestly say that my lowly eyes have never witnessed such a DeeLux Model A in all my life......


Deron
Click to expand...
YUP, And the BUY IT NOW price reflects it is a DEELUX Model, PLUS its 1 of ONLY 900 ever made..:rolleyes:
 
Jim Mason said:
As far as touring class...I don't play the game, so i won't try to make the rules. Fine point, and TC are two different games...two different standards.


Fact: Since the institution of TC more cars are being judged at the national meets.
Fact: more TC cars are entered than fine point.
Fact: few if any 2nd and 3rd place fine point cars are found in judging fine point.

Draw what ever conclusions you'd like.

As for the honesty of the the seller / owner? buyer beware....
Click to expand...


Some need to be careful here on what we say because during the Fine-point Judging Meeting held at Oshkosh, we as the attendees were specifically instructed not to say anything on Fordbarn regarding what happens during/in fine-point judging however it has been stated several times to me that the original intent for implimenting T/C judging was for car owners to be encouraged to try it there and then move up to F/P adjudication with their vehicle, --which members of the JSC will tell you this has not happened. If anything, it has gone the other way.

I personally have my opinions based on experiences of why this is happening but again, I am not supposed to publicly say anything here but it should make some ponder why.
 
I'm still looking for the "Deluxe open & close hood vents"
My poor lil '28 roadster isn't a "rare 1928 special edition model...1 of 900 made", but I like it just fine!
 
I would think it would be easier(not chasing down parts) and less expensive doing
a TC car......yes/no, please explain? I think there were TC cars at SD that we viewed
but didn't read what was on the note on the windshield...but had "options" on them
that weren't "Original".

I find it odd that somethings are not too be discussed here on the Barn, about
Fine Point.......but TC is OK?

*Rusty was nice enough to post 2 photos plus Will's(I assume), does anybody
have anymore?*
 
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