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BILL WILLIAMSON

BILL WILLIAMSON

Well-known member
Chief often refered to an OLD saying, "It's best to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than open your yap, and remove ALL doubt!:eek: He also said, "Read the question or the info TWICE before answering!"
My point is: A lot of problems are sometimes not answered well here because some blab out with the old "stock" answers, old husbands tales, "more bang for the buck," it's the condensor", "have you checked the 37 item list I just posted?" "swap out all 9 ignition items and report back," or giving advice on a Zenith, when the guy said he's running a Tillotson, or "oh! I always pick up old used points at swap meets and restore them, better than new!
On the other hand, the guy with the problem will reply, I checked all 49 items and it still won't start!
So, what does "checked" mean? Did he just visually "look" at it??
We need more SPECIFIC info in order to help and the poster should read a lot & look first at stuff that recieves the most wear & tear, abuse, interference, corrosion, etc.
After all this harrangue, I'd better unplug my computer for 2 days & finish my car 'afore I'm too old to drive!:eek: Bill W.
(One poster even inquired how to "fix" a rattle in his L/R door before the car had arrived to him on a transport!!):p
 
BILL WILLIAMSON said:
We need more SPECIFIC info in order to help and the poster should read a lot & look first at stuff that recieves the most wear & tear, abuse, interference, corrosion, etc.
Click to expand...

The problem with that Bill, is that most folks giving advice don't actually take the time to read what you wrote before offering up their advice. Case in point, I recently had a really tough time getting my new 1913 Model T to start after 40+ years in storage, so I started a thread on the MTFCA forum. Now I don't consider myself an expert Model T mechanic by any means, but I felt like I'd certainly covered my bases before asking for help. I compiled a very specific detailed list of all the things I had tried, their results and the other pertinent things that I'd observed. The result was probably 50 posts about how the timer must be set wrong (when I had stated in the very first post how I had adjusted it), how the exhaust must be clogged with a rat's nest (when I stated in the first post that the exhaust was new), how it must have stuck valves (when I had stated in the first post that all the valves had been checked for proper motion and that I had good compression on all cylinders), how the coils must be bad (when I had stated in the first post that each one would fire across a 3/4" gap with a hot blue spark), etc....

What I learned from that is that no matter how well-intentioned the replies were, the posters basically didn't take time to read past the opening statement of "I'm having trouble getting my T to crank". So while giving very specific info is indeed helpful in the diagnostic process, actually taking the time to read that info is equally as important.

Oh, and the other thing I learned is that you ain't gonna hand crank a Model T that's been in dry storage for 40+ years. It takes a tow rope and a trip down the block..... :o


Deron
 
It's not always the guy offering an answer. Sometimes the questions are written so poorly it's hard to tell what the real issue is. Sometimes there is little indication of the questioner's experience, either with Model A's or with his/her particular problem. Sometimes the questioner who is new here doesn't know the question has been asked and answered multiple times. And really, there aren't that many things that can wrong on a Model A, so there are stock answers to questions that come up repeatedly. Sometimes the answers are wrong, but keep in mind we aren't there to actually see the problem, so we're taking our best shot and offering our best solutions.

Most are here to share what information they have or what knowledge they've gained through their personal experiences, and to add a little more to that store of knowledge. I don't see a problem with that.

Your chief's paraphrase from Mark Twain is good advice and we all could use it at one time or another, including you, Bill.
 
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dlshady said:
The problem with that Bill, is that most folks giving advice don't actually take the time to read what you wrote before offering up their advice. Case in point, I recently had a really tough time getting my new 1913 Model T to start after 40+ years in storage, so I started a thread on the MTFCA forum. Now I don't consider myself an expert Model T mechanic by any means, but I felt like I'd certainly covered my bases before asking for help. I compiled a very specific detailed list of all the things I had tried, their results and the other pertinent things that I'd observed. The result was probably 50 posts about how the timer must be set wrong (when I had stated in the very first post how I had adjusted it), how the exhaust must be clogged with a rat's nest (when I stated in the first post that the exhaust was new), how it must have stuck valves (when I had stated in the first post that all the valves had been checked for proper motion and that I had good compression on all cylinders), how the coils must be bad (when I had stated in the first post that each one would fire across a 3/4" gap with a hot blue spark), etc....

What I learned from that is that no matter how well-intentioned the replies were, the posters basically didn't take time to read past the opening statement of "I'm having trouble getting my T to crank". So while giving very specific info is indeed helpful in the diagnostic process, actually taking the time to read that info is equally as important.

Oh, and the other thing I learned is that you ain't gonna hand crank a Model T that's been in dry storage for 40+ years. It takes a tow rope and a trip down the block..... :o


Deron
Click to expand...
Deron, I agree with you totally! As Chief said, READ it twice. Bill W.
 
Both the dlsahdy and 700RPM responses are true. Sometimes the questions are to vague and subjective and uninformed, sometimes the responses seem unrelated to the problem. It is the nature of the forum and there is not much that can be done about it.
A recent example is the Third Gear Knock which has gone on for a long while. It is like a mystery novel and I cant wait to find out the finish. The question is vague (what's a knock, that might not be a knock) and the answers are all over the board. That thread is a good example of imprecise information on the one hand, and just throwing out ideas for a fix on the other.
But I love the forum, with all its faults. It is a constant learning experience. Lighten up Bill.
 
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PC/SR,
Yes sir, I'll try to lighten up. Maybe I should watch the news to relax! I was just trying to help the communication between the writers and the answerers so we might be more effective in helping folks. Bill W.
 
It's an easy formula Bill. It's a forum. If someone asks it means right away they may not know a lot to begin with. The 'net's anonimity doesn't help much either. Some sound very self-absorbed, some sound like they shouldn't even own an old car/hotrod/gun/motorcycle, or whatever else the forum my serve as topics. Some replies are definately "out there" which can be entertaining at a minimum. We're all pack animals and here our "pack" is Model As. Some "Omegas" will say anything just to be in the pack. 99.937% of the time it's all very sincere and relatively accurate. 100% of the time it's an enjoyable sense of community. Not so bad after all. Think back to the 70s when there was no internet. How did we survive?:D:D
 
Was helping a buddy replace a blown copper head gasket at the repair area of the Oshkosh National Meet yesterday. In a couple of hours every Model A expert for miles around showed up to offer their free and unsolicited advise. I heard that you should be able to do that job in 20 minutes to you need to use double head gaskets. Use an old used head gasket to a new Synder one. Put it on dry. No don,t do that put it on greased up. Soooo many opinions on this simple job..
:p
 
dlshady said:
The problem with that Bill, is that most folks giving advice don't actually take the time to read what you wrote before offering up their advice. Case in point, I recently had a really tough time getting my new 1913 Model T to start after 40+ years in storage, so I started a thread on the MTFCA forum. Now I don't consider myself an expert Model T mechanic by any means, but I felt like I'd certainly covered my bases before asking for help. I compiled a very specific detailed list of all the things I had tried, their results and the other pertinent things that I'd observed. The result was probably 50 posts about how the timer must be set wrong (when I had stated in the very first post how I had adjusted it), how the exhaust must be clogged with a rat's nest (when I stated in the first post that the exhaust was new), how it must have stuck valves (when I had stated in the first post that all the valves had been checked for proper motion and that I had good compression on all cylinders), how the coils must be bad (when I had stated in the first post that each one would fire across a 3/4" gap with a hot blue spark), etc....

What I learned from that is that no matter how well-intentioned the replies were, the posters basically didn't take time to read past the opening statement of "I'm having trouble getting my T to crank". So while giving very specific info is indeed helpful in the diagnostic process, actually taking the time to read that info is equally as important.

Oh, and the other thing I learned is that you ain't gonna hand crank a Model T that's been in dry storage for 40+ years. It takes a tow rope and a trip down the block..... :o


Deron
Click to expand...

Bill also said "what is checked?". I've been at this long enough to see someone state they have set the timing and still have a problem only to see later that when they rechecked it again, timing was the problem and they did it wrong.

Also remember that the original poster is not the only one that reads and learns from these threads. Seeing things repeated and maybe a little off topic helps others as well.

So yes, specific is always better but also remember that even if the posts are specific we are not there to actually see the work done. I also beleive that members of this forum that never state what they found to solve the problem most likley found the problem to be something they said they already tried and don't want to admit it.
 
at this state of time,AGE (most of us are are over 65)it is easy to say things twice ,er,3 times ,and still do it again,I dont mind people asking the same things,ie,why is my A getting Hot? why does it Die when Stopping,how do I adjust the steering ? its easier to ask that and get a Fresh answer than looking thru all the back threads .I dont think I'm lazy,but that may be . I like your Humor Bill.
 
Some folks just do not know enough about the "A" to figure out how to ask a question regarding their problem.......we have all been there at one time...
Bruce Davis
 
Try to use humor to get through my trying situations, guess I'm more up tight than I realized. I'm sure others are going through much greater trials than me.
We all like to see our names come up & relish the fact that we "might" know more than "the average bear." Many times, I learn stuff from the poster of a question!
I think we do pretty well, considering we can't hear it run, can't smell it's khaust, can't goose it's throttle, can't "short" it's plugs, and most of all, we can't "talk" with our HANDS! bILL w.
 
dlshady said:
The problem with that Bill, is that most folks giving advice don't actually take the time to read what you wrote before offering up their advice.
Deron
Click to expand...

I have experienced this on other forums. Trying to second guess how another person reads posts is an art in itself, we are all different in the way we do things.

Also it is not really helpful when a responder loftily responds with "the answer is there is one searches the forum". It would be better to be given a link to a possible answer.

Sometimes the the searcher fails to get a result in the first instant because he/she is not quite sure what keywords to use. Or maybe difference in spelling between USA and rest of world. Fortunately this forum does not have the same trap that the Vintage Sports Car Club forum has where the default search pattern is for the last 7 days only. or the Triumph TR Register forum where it rejects three letter words.

This forum of people are really impressive for the help and dissemination of knowledge. For such a busy forum to have so little warfare is wonderful - thank you all!


Roly
 
Another area is 'Responder Bias'

Ask a very specific question (e.g. 'anyone have the dimensions for '31 wind wing glass similar to' and provide a copy of the 28-29 spec diagram from the service bulletins). Make the mistake of saying it's because you are planning to have them made from polycarbonate and all hell breaks loose... Why would you want to do that... They should be glass to be correct... Plastic will scratch... 'Responder Bias' The question wasn't if it's the right thing to do; it was specifically about the dimensions. Perhaps if the reason wasn't shared the outcome might have been different.

Then there's 'Responder Goes Away' - e.g. someone offering to measure their wind wings to provide the actual answer requested - and they go away, never to be heard from again - even when bumped on the thread or PM'd. But you know they're still around, because you see them posting on other threads...

HOWEVER - with that said - the information obtained from here has been invaluable. A couple of people local to me that I first 'met' on the forum are great resources and unbelievably helpful.

Sometimes, during the course of trying to get more specific information or answers - a lot of really good info is exchanged.

The community here is great...

I do wish the search function worked better - might eliminate the multitude of duplicate threads... but fresh eyes give fresh answers (or at least fresh opinions... :D)

Can we all try harder - probably. Will we ever be perfect - not damned likely.

And after the Sharon, WI 'A' day - I have concluded 'A's are a lot like Harleys - people make them up to be what they want them to be - not necessarily following the judging standards - unless that's what they want to do. :eek:

The bigger the mix, the better the party... ;)
 
Mothy posted while I was typing - and he brings up a GREAT point...

Instead of
- just saying the info in in another thread - link it
- referring to 'it's in the Restorer' [or other publication] - give details - month, year, page... better yet - scan the article and attach it to the thread.

And another thought - whenever possible - attach pictures, diagrams, sketches - anything that might help...

Done now...

Sorry...
 
I think folks who say the answer is in another thread, but fail to supply a link, are thinking that the OP should have done a search, and they don;t want to do it for him.

I know I have been guilty of that sometimes.

I have to try to remember that the way I search and the way you search might be different, and lead to very different results(or none at all)
 
About that knock: the YouTube video and its soundtrack was worth 10000 words. Whenever somebody with a problem is able to post some photos or a video, it makes it SO much easier to give a helpful answer (or at least avoid giving useless advice).

I'm also dying to learn what the cause of that knock was. If my car sounded like the video, I would be very concerned.

Doug

PC/SR said:
Both the dlsahdy and 700RPM responses are true. Sometimes the questions are to vague and subjective and uninformed, sometimes the responses seem unrelated to the problem. It is the nature of the forum and there is not much that can be done about it.
A recent example is the Third Gear Knock which has gone on for a long while. It is like a mystery novel and I cant wait to find out the finish. The question is vague (what's a knock, that might not be a knock) and the answers are all over the board. That thread is a good example of imprecise information on the one hand, and just throwing out ideas for a fix on the other.
But I love the forum, with all its faults. It is a constant learning experience. Lighten up Bill.
Click to expand...
 
mothy said:
Fortunately this forum does not have the same trap that the Vintage Sports Car Club forum has where the default search pattern is for the last 7 days only. or the Triumph TR Register forum where it rejects three letter words.
Click to expand...

A great idea for a party game: How many car parts can you name with three-letter names?

Doug
 
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