What am I Missing in the JS?

Rowdy

Rowdy

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Just curious as to what I am missing in the JS or is there something else going on here? I have 7 powerhouse generators and 3 of them do noty conform to what is written in the JS. One is a P2, 3 are P3's, the other 3 have the 5 brush holder( 2 othem broken beyond fixing), but have the cutout on the top rather than the side. I read no mention of that configuration in the JS, but to have 3 of them out of 7 seems abit much to be bastardized. Any clarification or explaination would be appriciated. Thanks Rod
 
When I did some research at the BFRC on the powerhouse I found that Ford switched back and forth on the top and side mounting of the cutout. Not all, but many field pole screws and mounting bracket screws were staked at the screwdriver slot to keep them from loosening. Examine the stakes for any tampering if you suspect it was pieced together from a mix of parts.

The field windings on the 5 brush had more wire than the 3 brush powerhouse, so when you connect a 6 volt battery charger to check the field coils you should have about 1 to 1 1/2 amps draw on the 5 brush field coils and 2 or a hair more on the 3 brush field coils.

Also a few mounting brackets have the FORD script on the front face near the middle of the bracket. I couldn't pin down any information on this and the script can be found on a few 3 and 5 brush powerhouse generators.

BTW, check all the pictures in "THE MODEL A FORD as HENRY BUILT IT" and you will see a Model A comming down the assembly line in November 1928 and it still has the tension bracket. Page 59 in my edition.
 
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Tom, my original leatherback 4 door that was most likely built in late Oct or very early November, 10/23/28 firewall date, has the P3 gen with a tensioning arm.
 
Late June of 29 should be an L1 generator with the cutout on top. It is the powerhouse generators that are mainly in question. Rod
 
I notice all of these have the tension bracket, I do not recall ever seeing one without, but know I have not seen it all. Not meaning to pick on the JS committee people as they do a wonderful and sometimes Thankless job, but this stuff may need to be reviewed at some point. I will check the amp draw on the field coils and look over the screrws. I know for sure one of them will not have the screws properly staked as I had to put the guts of one 5 brush into another case as the armerature bearing cup was loose, but I did atleast transfer them into a case with the same cutout orientation as I did not have a P2 case to begin with. Rod
 
msmaron said:
Tell me guys, where was the cutout mounted on a Late June 29 car?
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If you use a powerhouse, it should have the cutout on top and be a 3 brush with NO tension bracket. Powerhouse generators can be seen on factory photos up to July 1929.

Even though the long Autolite generator was released for production in October 1928 I don't recall seeing any 1928 factory photos with them installed.
 
Mountain Dew said:
  • What is the "JS"?
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MARC / MAFCA Judging Standards.

no Model A owner should be without a set.

I have never and will never have a car judged, but I find them to be extremely valuable.

it is usually just as easy to do things correctly as to do them half-a**ed.
 
Rowdy said:
Late June of 29 should be an L1 generator with the cutout on top. It is the powerhouse generators that are mainly in question. Rod
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Check your standards, Tom is absolutely correct on this, Late June to mid July powerhouse was still used and you can see photos of it..
Thanks Tom,
:rolleyes:
 
Chris in Jax said:
MARC / MAFCA Judging Standards.

no Model A owner should be without a set.

I have never and will never have a car judged, but I find them to be extremely valuable.

it is usually just as easy to do things correctly as to do them half-a**ed.
Click to expand...


That and Les Andrews books are the bible of the Hobby, I agree but,,,,,,i will have a car judged...had to throw that in Chris....PS how was the ride home from Flick!
 
Check the Indianapolis Letters for 1931. Ford advised dealers they no longer had new Armatures for rebuilding the powerhouse generator.

I have rebuilt many 5 and 3 brush generators over the years and when starting found a number of them had been rebuilt using parts from other type powerhouse, such as 3 brush holder in a 5 brush powerhouse, etc.

What can you expect after all the years they have been around ?

Ron
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
When I did some research at the BFRC on the powerhouse I found that Ford switched back and forth on the top and side mounting of the cutout. Not all, but many field pole screws and mounting bracket screws were staked at the screwdriver slot to keep them from loosening. Examine the stakes for any tampering if you suspect it was pieced together from a mix of parts.

The field windings on the 5 brush had more wire than the 3 brush powerhouse, so when you connect a 6 volt battery charger to check the field coils you should have about 1 to 1 1/2 amps draw on the 5 brush field coils and 2 or a hair more on the 3 brush field coils.

Also a few mounting brackets have the FORD script on the front face near the middle of the bracket. I couldn't pin down any information on this and the script can be found on a few 3 and 5 brush powerhouse generators.

BTW, check all the pictures in "THE MODEL A FORD as HENRY BUILT IT" and you will see a Model A comming down the assembly line in November 1928 and it still has the tension bracket. Page 59 in my edition.
Click to expand...

Tom, could you give me / us a pictorial on this, testing, please. Thanks,
Dudley
 
Im actually looking for a P2 style powerhouse to return my sept 24th to stock original if anybody have an extra PM me. :)
 
If I can find another correct P2 case I will build one for you. I already have this other one done, and a person lined up that wants it as soon as I get the EVR from Tom. If you know of a case with bad internal let me know. I posted a want add on this site for one, but no one seems to have one yet. Also need to order a set of brushes as these are at their end. Rod
 
Posting these pic's for Charles Reese showing the variations of p2 and p3 gererators. The one on the far left has the cutout in the p3 location, but has the tension bracket and had a 5 brush holder that was beyond fixing. This configuration is not mentioned in the JS. Note the locations of the cutout terminals and the presence or absence of the tension bracket. I mispoke when Tom and I were discussing the bracket. Up until I brought the last ones home all had the bracket and i had not looked these over that well externally, was more concerned about weather they worked or not. Rod
 

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thanks for taking this trouble on my behalf!

Bick in NZ recently posted some beautiful high quality pix of the engine compartment of an early 28. in keeping with this discussion of the powerhouse, in that photo I noticed (1) the cutout is mounted on ‘top’ and (2) a unique (at least to me) generator bracket mount … my 5 brush has the more familiar ‘oval’ shape … the one in the pix seems to have a triangular shape mount & a rather short support arm. Would this then be the P1 version?

first pix is a scan from my '28 parts list ... seems cutout is on 'side'
 

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Thats interseting, Ihave not seen that before. According to the JS the p1 had the cutout on the side. The bracket in these pic's I have no clue unless I have misread things. Maybe more research needs to go into the cutout location changes. If you read the Early and very early sections in the back of the JS it says to see the chart in section 2 as the cutout was moved 5 times, but looking at the chart no real mention of the changes in that time frame. Rod
 
Rowdy said:
Thats interseting, Ihave not seen that before. According to the JS the p1 had the cutout on the side. The bracket in these pic's I have no clue unless I have misread things. Maybe more research needs to go into the cutout location changes. If you read the Early and very early sections in the back of the JS it says to see the chart in section 2 as the cutout was moved 5 times, but looking at the chart no real mention of the changes in that time frame. Rod
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Yep, as I mentioned earlier when I went to the BFRC I tried to pin down a time line for the 5 brush powerhouse cutout location. I think the draftsman was trying to look busy by constantly changing the location of the cutout. After reading the blueprints and notes, and the release letters, I found it would be hard if not impossible to say for certain when each location occured. When you consider using up the supply on hand and the changes, there would be overlap of each location.

So, I wouldn't worry about the cutout location. Just consider a 5 brush for all of 1928 is fine and a 3 brush powerhouse for October 1928 and later up through July 1929 is fine. Of course the brush holder can't be seen, so any powerhouse without the tension bracket, but with the cutout on top could get by for 1929.

My 9-27-28 has the 5 brush with the adjustment bracket, and as mentioned original factory photos show the tension bracket on the November 1928 assembly line.
 
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