Early Multiplate clutch un usual starter

Brendan1959

Brendan1959

Member
Hi
I have an early engine with a multiplate clutch I bent the ½ inch shaft so I got another starter with the larger shaft and put a modern bendiix on it, it would bind so I skimmed it in the lath. I am still not happy with it. I recently got another engine with a starter that has an un usual bendix. This bendix has no spring return and has a pin which travels along a slot to engage the starter to the ring gear. Has anyone had this type of system, is it worth a try?
Thanks
Brendan
 
I broke my 1/2 inch shaft clean off .

Repaired it easily.

Working fine.

If you want to fix your old one and can't bend yours back, maybe cut it off andput a new shaft in as I did.

note.. Mine broke because it had a headed bolt in the front end and it hit the flywheel, so check your bent one.
 
Your description indicates it is the Abel Starter Drive, not one of Fords better ideas; in the Service Bulletins is a article about converting the starter to a Bendix Drive; the Bendix Drive used for conversion is called a DR Starter Drive. The shaft on the early starter must be modified to accept and properly work with the Bendix Drive.

If not concerned about using the square starter switch, just use the later starter and starter switch.

Ron
 
The later starter won't clear the multiplate flywheel. I'd just bend the original starter shaft straight. It's easy to do with a press, or even some rigging with C clamps.

If you have an original early Abell drive, why not use it and see if it doesn't work OK? They are quite rare and it would be a neat item to show others. I plan to use one on my 28 when I install the multiplate flywheel.

ArmatureStraightner.jpg


Here's an armature straightner I made some years ago. You don't really need a dial indicator. You can see the nut and washer in the center move up and down if the shaft is bent. Just tighten the center nut to pull the high side down.
 
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Tom is correct, should have engaged brain before typing, the later starter bendix will not clear the multi disc flywheel. Sorry for the mis-infomation. The DR Starter Drive is difficult to find these days; I am running the DR Starter Drive on my very early (1927) A with the multi disc clutch.

Ron
 
Brendan1959 said:
Similar but no spring that I can see, there is a small step or flat section at the top of the slot so it sort of latches.
Brendan
Click to expand...

If the Abell drive is installed on the armature, then you can't see the two springs.

The very light spring is needed to let the inertia let the drive spin up the helix until the pinion teeth engage the flywheel ring gear. At that point the light spring will be fully collapsed into the cupped retainer shown between the two springs. Once the light spring is fully collapsed the heavy spring takes over, and by this time the heavy drag of cranking the engine will allow the pinion to continue climing up the helix (and compressing the heavy spring) to the slight recess where it stays while cranking. So, you can see that every part in the picture is needed for this drive to function correctly.

This looks like a good drive to me, but I haven't used one yet. Ford had quite a recall on them and they are hard to find. Keep some oil on the parts for lube and to keep them from rusting. On the later drive you don't want anything more than a light oil on the helix, or it will hang up and not engage, especially in cold weather.
 
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OK, as long as you can feel a light spring pressure holding the pinion out of engagement, then your light spring, retainer and heavy spring are all in place inside the pinion. I would go ahead and use this starter.

Since I see the starter setting in a solvent tank I'd guess you cleaned it in there. Be sure to put some oil on the drive and starter end plate bushing.

BTW, the picture shows the drive half way up the helix. Does it actually have light spring pressure to keep it fully disengaged? If the light spring is missing then you can buy some thin piano wire at the hardware store and make your own spring, as I have pictured. It's exactly 3 turns and must fit inside the steel retainer ring recess when it's collapsed.
 
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BTW, the Abell starters had shims that are used between the starter and flywheel cover to give the drive proper spacing from the pinion to the ring gear. This is described in the SERVICE BULLETINS.
 
We have a half inch drive on our starter and the drive is the same drive used on a model T .. I got my parts for the T and they fit perfectly .. not sure if that will work in this case
 
Pepsi Mechanic said:
We have a half inch drive on our starter and the drive is the same drive used on a model T .. I got my parts for the T and they fit perfectly .. not sure if that will work in this case
Click to expand...

Hey Pepsi Mechanic, did you retain the reciept? I'd like to know that part number. I have one workable bedix left and well, if the T unit works it might be a good alternative to the hand crank.
 
AbellStarterDrive6.jpg


AbellStarterDrive7.jpg


Here's 2 more pictures of the original armature used with the Abell drive. The part of the armature that the pinion actually rides on is larger than 3/4", while the end of the shaft is 1/2". Being only 1/2" makes the keyway more likely to crack from the added torque pressure against the key, as compared to the later 5/8" shaft. I've seen some cracks starting at the keyway corners, and that's why it's so important to make sure the spark is fully retarded while cranking the engine. Ford said the "TROUBLESOME" Abell drive was replaced with the newer style, but I've never seen it spelled out exactly what the trouble was. Could it be the cracking in the shaft, or improper shimming, or something else? That's why I want to use one and see if it gives me any trouble.

In the first picture you can see where the pressure on the key is pushing the steel shaft up on the side that pushes against the key.
 
If I were you, I'd sell the able starter/drive on ebay as they are very rare. You could then get several of the later 1/2 inch drive starters and have money left over!

My multi-disc setup came with a 5/8 starter that stayed engaged as I drove down the road making a horrible racket. I don't believe the seller had actually driven the truck. I got the correct one from a forum member for $125 or so including an extra clutch setup and a flywheel if I wanted it. Many people are replacing the multi-disc with later clutches and I see them for sale often in the want ads. BTW, I replaced my multi-disc with a 39 transmission so I have the parts but am keeping the original parts with my early 28 in case I change my mind.
 
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Thanks Fellas,
After I washed the drive I can feel the light spring, As the shaft that comes out of the starter is 5/8 I imagine it will be less likely to bend. I am very close to getting the car registered, in Australia that can be quite difficult. I am trying to make sure the starter wont let me down while it is being roadworthy tested. This will require me to leave the car with a mechanic (not so keen on this) so they can inspect and road test, apparently they now have to photograph the brake shoes, drums and other items. You can see the engine the starter came out of and my car.
Regards
Brendan
 

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Farrell In Vancouver said:
Hey Pepsi Mechanic, did you retain the reciept? I'd like to know that part number. I have one workable bedix left and well, if the T unit works it might be a good alternative to the hand crank.
Click to expand...
Got my parts from Macs ... go to www.macsautoparts.com .. go to Model T and go to electrical .. they have a starter bendix parts that fit a half inch shaft ... these parts were an exact match to the parts on our early 28 AA ... starter itself is completly different but the bendix is the same
Harry / Pepsi Mechanic
 
Pepsi Mechanic said:
Got my parts from Macs ... go to www.macsautoparts.com .. go to Model T and go to electrical .. they have a starter bendix parts that fit a half inch shaft ... these parts were an exact match to the parts on our early 28 AA ... starter itself is completly different but the bendix is the same
Harry / Pepsi Mechanic
Click to expand...

Thank Harry, I'll check it out!
Did you catch the picks of the Coke Hauler I posted on the AA site?
 
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