Lub for trans. and rear end

L

Louis

Well-known member
I know this has been beat to death, But, Today I was reading some older Model "A" news restorers Mag. And their was an artical by
Mr. Roger Kauffman who was Technical Chairman for the mag. He said that he used stright STP in his pickup truck's trans. and rear end for 125,000 miles with no problems.
I was wondering if any one else here use's stright STP instead of the 600-w or 1500-w in their trans. and diff.
When I read the lable on the 600-w 1500-w it has no co. name on it,
it just says: this is the correct viscosity, formulated for extra heavyweight oil. Was it made in some guys garage ? it look,s like old used oil mixed with STP, wonder why the maker won't put his name on it.
Any way, last night I took Mr. Kauffman's advice, Who I thought the world of, and drained that crappy looking black goop out and flushed it out with eng. oil and after letting it drain over night I serviced both trans. and diff. with stright STP, Runs and shift's great.
Any comment's ? Pos. or neg....Thank you.;)
 
Louis -

Let us know when the first cold snap hits to see how she shifts then. I am curious as I live in the warmer Western climates. Thanks for the upodate and I wish you well!

SHEC
 
SHEC,
The viscosity of STP does not seem to be any thicker then the witches brew made up in some ones garage at night, Maybe you could tell me what co. makes the secret formula of 600-w or 1500-w that is sold by the venders ?....I think the only reason that it is black is to give the appearence of the old steam eng. oil of the 20's and 30's.....And I live in GA. it's not that cold here in the winter.
All of this is JMO. Thanks for your responce. ;)
 
Old timer in the club says if you put a tube of graphite in the transmission that it'll shift better/easier. I haven't personally tried this yet but I wouldn't figure it would hurt anything.
 
Louis, I've been using straight STP in my pick up for years. Rear end, trans. and steering box. I've had no ill effects, summer or winter temps. shifts O.K., steers fine and easy when cold. Try putting a bottle of STP in your freezer for a spell and tell me if you think it gets unsatisfactorily too thick. It also seems to cling to gears with a very thin film after even sitting above the oil level before driving. And it's clear in appearance, if that really makes any difference. If someone can give me proof not to use STP in the Ford gear systems, I'll listen.
 
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mass A man said:
Louis, I've been using straight STP in my pick up for years. Rear end, trans. and steering box. I've had no ill effects, summer or winter temps. shifts O.K., steers fine and easy when cold. Try putting a bottle of STP in your freezer for a spell and tell me if you think it gets unsatisfactorily too thick. It also seems to cling to gears with a very thin film after even sitting above the oil level before driving. And it's clear in appearance, if that really makes any difference. If someone can give me proof not to use STP in the Ford gear systems, I'll listen.
Click to expand...

Mass A Man,
Thanks for your responce, Esp. from from some one who has used STP for years.
I have noticed that when I used the 600-w-1500-w that after a drive when I ck. my tran's /diff. that it's nothing but foam and bubbles on my finger, That can't be good. STP does not foam or turn to bubbles, plus the co. is not ashamed to put their name on the product.
If any one knows what co. makes this 600-w/1500-w/ please let us know.
agin, JMHO. ;)
 
STP is not a lubricant, it is a viscosity thickener. I would not use it straight in anything as it has no lubrication properties. Use the stuff the stores sell or follow RonC's recommendations.
 
Colorado Gregg ....................
STP is not sold as a lubricant, but it sure is slicky !
Do you remember the old STP TV ad, where you dip the blade of a screwdriver in oil and try to hold it by the blade, upside down ? It's easy to do.
Now, clean it off, dip it in STP and try to hold it. It's impossible ! The tighter you squeeze it, the faster it shoots out of your fingers. I've tried it !
I've used STP in my steering boxes, for years and have always liked it. I'm interested in trying it in the transmission and rear end. I'm hoping more chime in on this.
MIKE :)
 
Just because STP is slipperyier than oil does not mean that it has any lubrication properties. Ice is pretty slippery but I wouldn't put it in my car.
 
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I run straight STP in the trans and a gear lube (85/140) & stp mix in the rear end with no issues. There is a breakdown somewhere on the web that will tell you exactly what is in STP. Although not sold as a lubricant, it is over 70% lube (mineral oil) if I recall. Les Andrews suggests either a 50/50 of 600W and STP or straight STP for smoother shifting. http://www.mafca.com/tqa_e_clutch_trans.html
 
I think there may be a demarcation point here in this discussion with STP being sold as an "oil treatment", or "gear lube". I believe the people at STP are trying to stress the point their product is meant for an additive for ENGINE OIL. Nowhere on their label states the use in Model A transmissions, but I firmly believe, through actual proof, it works well. Here's their comments phone #;1-888-GO-4-STP1. Be prepared for total silence on the other end when you ask them about our discussions here.
 
Curious as to why there isn't one single mention of S.A.E. 140 here ? I only do 33-34 stuff but gears are gears ? Aren't they ? I use it in the steering , ****** , u-joint & rear end on my old fords . It doesn't say S.A.E.140 on it but it is . GL5 moly stuff . My main use of it is in my John Deere 2 cylinder tractors . Really quiets the straight cut gear noise down . Does the same for first-reverse in 33-34 cars . Kinda spendy but good sometimes is . OR is there something i'm missing here ? :confused:
 
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What you need to ask is why a certain type of lubricant is use.

The current 600W equivalents listed above are designed for high pressure gears without a swiping motion. The Model A has straight cut gears and minimal swiping action. The oil sticks to the gears and stays under the pressures found in the gear action.

There are secondary characteristics you might not consider.

Have you ever noticed the lack of rust in the tubes of the axles and the drive shaft? They always have this coating of oil on them that is real sticky. I am going to have to guess there are benefits to this. You also have Ford engineers calculating flow rates from the transmission to the U joint and front bushing through the rear bearing.

The car was designed to use an oil with certain properties. By using lubricants or friction modifiers you are changing how the system works. So how are you affecting how other parts work and what do you need to do to counter your change to the system.

One always have to keep in mind the Model A was carefully engineered. Not just thrown together cheaply. You need to look at the engineering and ask what the purposes are of the design- keeping in mind the historical perspective the current technology of the day.

So does it work with these other oils? Well some think they work fine, but maybe they are not telling you the whole story. You might not hear about some other problem they are having that could be traced back to the oil IF you took the time to think about it.

The correct oil is not very expensive to buy and we know it works properly.
 
I don't really know what 600W is,, apparently its different depending on where its purchased.. I've read where its anywhere from 140wgt to 600wgt,but, most info I've seen has it in the 250wgt range.. I've tried 140wgt, 250wgt, 600wgt and 600W with really not much difference between them that I can notice.. Mine now has 250wgt in the rear, 600wgt in the transmitter and steering box.. I may try 1000wgt next season..
 
Thanks for the reply , This is just curiosity to me & yes I am very familiar with old fords - 33-34's not A's but there are similarities . Interesting to note that the rear trans bearing is the same & the baffle is more or less the same & is designed to let some lube by to keep the rear bearing & u-joint lubed . I see A's use the same B-4245 driveshaft & axle seals as 33-34 . Ford calls for S.A.E 110 - winter & S.A.E. 160 - summer in the steering , ****** & rear on 33-34 . The u-joint cavity calls for 4 oz of { cylinder oil - soda soap grease } info from page 147 of the Jan-Feb 1934 Ford service bulletins . Why such a change ? What is the S.A.E. rating of this 600w stuff ? I have found that modern " 00" viscosity fluid gear grease is similar to the old " cylinder oil - soda soap grease " used in the u-joint cavity . On the lack of rust in the tubes -or if you want the " cling " factor the S.A.E. 140 moly stuff I like to use is excellent . I smear a little on plow moldboards when done in spring & it will keep the plow from rusting outside till the next spring . That's really good cling in my book . Like I stated above this is just curiosity as there seems to be an entirely different consensus on lubes between A & V-8 folks . David J
Kevin in NJ said:
What you need to ask is why a certain type of lubricant is use.

The current 600W equivalents listed above are designed for high pressure gears without a swiping motion. The Model A has straight cut gears and minimal swiping action. The oil sticks to the gears and stays under the pressures found in the gear action.

There are secondary characteristics you might not consider.

Have you ever noticed the lack of rust in the tubes of the axles and the drive shaft? They always have this coating of oil on them that is real sticky. I am going to have to guess there are benefits to this. You also have Ford engineers calculating flow rates from the transmission to the U joint and front bushing through the rear bearing.

The car was designed to use an oil with certain properties. By using lubricants or friction modifiers you are changing how the system works. So how are you affecting how other parts work and what do you need to do to counter your change to the system.

One always have to keep in mind the Model A was carefully engineered. Not just thrown together cheaply. You need to look at the engineering and ask what the purposes are of the design- keeping in mind the historical perspective the current technology of the day.

So does it work with these other oils? Well some think they work fine, but maybe they are not telling you the whole story. You might not hear about some other problem they are having that could be traced back to the oil IF you took the time to think about it.

The correct oil is not very expensive to buy and we know it works properly.
Click to expand...
 
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