Information Request

stevests

stevests

Well-known member
I would like to verify a serial number on a Model A phaeton - besides the motor number, weren't they numbered on the frame somewhere also ?
 
Yes, on the driver's side, but under the body. You would need to remove the body to see it. Is your engine number the same as the number on the title? Is it the same year as the car?
 
The simple answer to this question is - the ONLY serial number on a Model A is the number that was stamped on the engine when it passed quality control.
ALL cars did NOT get the frame stamped. A frame stamp is useless for registration since it can not be seen with the body in place.
 
Clearly, I'm a T guy & Ford began stamping all T frames in 1926 and on a T, it's on the right frame rail on top across from the H.B. cross shaft - easy to see with the floor boards out !
 
ModelA29 said:
The simple answer to this question is - the ONLY serial number on a Model A is the number that was stamped on the engine when it passed quality control.
ALL cars did NOT get the frame stamped. A frame stamp is useless for registration since it can not be seen with the body in place.
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I have read reports that when registering a Model A, the inspector knew what to look for and it was required to lift the body so they could check the frame number.
It would be interesting to know where the information that not all frames were stamped because as I understand, the frame were stamped at the same time the engines were installed and stamped.
 
I've owned a few that were never stamped.A poultry farmer that moved here from Canada in the 60's brought his collection of A parts with him,and in the 80's I wound up with it.Not one of those half a dozen frames were ever stamped.They did have stampings near the rear though to denote the rear spring.I have an April of 30 frame sitting outside of my cellar door right now with no stamping.That frame is immaculate,if it had a number ground off there would be divots on the top of the rail from doing it.It is perfect.According to the body crossmember stamping it was assembled in Somerville Mass.That car had never been apart until I took it apart a couple of years ago.
 
stevests said:
Clearly, I'm a T guy & Ford began stamping all T frames in 1926 and on a T, it's on the right frame rail on top across from the H.B. cross shaft - easy to see with the floor boards out !
Click to expand...

Even T frame stamping info is a little fuzzy - I think I read that T frame stamping commenced on December 12, 1925 on right frame rail, but my 1926 RPU’s frame has a December 15 1925 number stamped on the left frame rail with a January 16, 1926 engine number. As we know, engines, frames, etc. could have been changed over the past century, but my T has the features of an early ‘26…so who knows?
 
Keith True said:
I've owned a few that were never stamped.A poultry farmer that moved here from Canada in the 60's brought his collection of A parts with him,and in the 80's I wound up with it.Not one of those half a dozen frames were ever stamped.They did have stampings near the rear though to denote the rear spring.I have an April of 30 frame sitting outside of my cellar door right now with no stamping.That frame is immaculate,if it had a number ground off there would be divots on the top of the rail from doing it.It is perfect.According to the body crossmember stamping it was assembled in Somerville Mass.That car had never been apart until I took it apart a couple of years ago.
Click to expand...

Canadian Model As did not have a number stamped on the chassis.
 
I don't know about other states but Texas allows pencil rubbings and clear photographs of a frame numbers if the owner takes them and certifies them under the state regulations so they are NOT worthless in all states. Check your local states rules and regulations on vehicle identification for title & registration purposes. Back when I titled my 29 Sport Coupe, they didn't check the numbers unless the car was coming in from out of state. In that case, the numbers are verified in a means acceptable to the state. If it had an in state title, the numbers would have already been verified under previous acceptable methods.
 
Hello, yes they were supposed to have engine number stamped on the frame rail , but many times the frame number may not be legible, due to rust and age .In that era engine numbers were used for VNI . Pennsylvania will want a tracing of engine number when brought in from out of state. If a number can’t be provided Pennsylvania will issue a state generated VIN number to be attached to the firewall or inner door area , this becomes the new number on title.
 
As part of the sale of a rolling AA frame to a buyer from Texas, I had to provide a "title."

Title in NH is pretty simple - provide a bill of sale identifying the VID, provide VERIFICATION of the VID on the actual vehicle. If a previous registration in your name exists (It didn't for me on this) then that can be used in lieu of the Bill of Sale.

Using the BOS, I arranged for an "authorized inspector" to come to the house and verify. Nice local female police officer - well uniformed - and totally unaware of the engine or frame numbers on a Model AA antique chassis.

I was fortunate that both engine and frame matched on this 26K chassis (with the body removed.) But I simply showed her the engine, without telling her about the chassis number.

I think had I showed her the chassis number instead, she would have been content with that?

Talking with her afterwards I asked "what would you do if you didn't have a number stamped ANYWHERE? (Which would be the condition of my "other" Model A truck - chassis number obscured, engine number block BLANK. - ("Allstate" Engine painted red. )

"Well, as long as you have a permanent plate stamped and mounted somewhere near the engine, matches the BIS, and available for inspection by lifting the hood, that would probably be OK. "

In the case of my other truck, I had an expired registration from Massachusetts - which showed A number. It does match the chassis.

At least in this state they give you some slack based on "demand" on the body style. Antique trucks not so much in demand. Were it a Lamborghini, I imagine it would be a different story.

Joe K
 
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Suggestion:

For future readers when you take a car to be registered is: the less that you say to DMV inspector the better.

The worst thing that you can say is anything about the frame number being located under the body.

Unless you really want to lift the body so they can look! :D

You might get lucky if they do not know about this fact!
 
Take a copy of your owners manual
 

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