How do Eddie Meyer Heads Compare to other big names?

Here's my two cents to add to this post in regards to chamber design. In Brian's post above he writes Now if we raise the roof that'll improve the breathing but have the adverse effect of lowering the c/r. And asks the question Or will it? Here's my answer to Brian's important question its a long answer but hopefully will give everyone more information to think about.

What I have found each time I opened up the combustion chamber in our race flathead engines to increase breathing engine output increased. The static compression ratio would be lower. BUT would this reduce power output ? Since we run a blower on the race engine the effect of better breathing and reduced compression actually improved the power out put.
Since many of you reading this would likely not run a blower I'm sure you will ask what would happen with just carburetor's. I can answer this with the results from an experiment we did August 2024 at Speedweek.

In 2024 At Speedweek after we established two blown flathead records well over 200 MPH we removed the blower and in its place installed a two deuce tunnel ram intake I fabricated from aluminum tubing. The two barrel carbs were Holley's the type used on the tri power set ups from the muscle car era in the sixtys. They were pretty much stock factory style replacement carbs.
Driving the race car was rookie Carly Moody a young female who has a great desire to be able to drive a car on the salt. Our blower records set that year varied between 211 and 219 MPH.

Carly set a record as well with the two deuce combination at 158.767 top speed on one run was just shy of 160 MPH. On the time slip there's additional details as follows outside air temp for the runs were 101 degrees with a density altitude of 7777 feet. Density altitude means not much air engines need to breath just like us the thankfully the increased port flow idea in our flathead engine without the blower allowed the engine to still make power turning 5500 RPM during the entire three mile run.

Think about that for a moment this was not a purpose built high compression flathead engine. It was the same low COMPRESION and HIGH port flow breathing engine used for our blower.
The way I see it port flow is far more important in a flathead than compression.
Ronnieroadster

An added note if interested I can add the details in a separate post from our experience this year at Bonneville Speed Week setting two more records this time running an 8BA block with ARDUN overhead valve Heads. Same experiment as above with the blower and then remove blower and run with two deuces.
 
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Great Stuff Ronnie. Thanks so much for you confirmed what I had always found but just engine tune , sound , and seat of the pants.
 
My comment had nothing to do with Ronnie's post. I'm going back to the original question about the best 8BA heads for general use. How racing even got into this discussion is beyond me.:confused:
 
Ronnie was answering the question about the chamber design of the new EM heads being offered.

I have read and reread Ronnie's latest post several times and I don't see where he even mentions the new EM heads.

Ronnie did mention the new E M heads in his post #4 where he said : "There's really no additional benefit gained with the Eddie Meyer heads when compared to Offy, Edelebrock, Fenton, Navarro and overall many other brands as well." I am saying that there is one brand of heads with a difference, Edmunds. Interestingly, it has nothing to do with flow or compression; it has got to do with quench and flame-front travel. Please reference the works of Sir Harry Ricardo if you haven't already done so.
 
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I hate to sound like a broken record, but the only heads with any significant difference (advantage) are Edmunds heads. The spark plug is re-located enough that it misses the exhaust valve, allowing the use of extended tip plugs. With the spark out in the transfer area, the flame front travels faster. Combine this with the proper quench, and it adds up to a real difference in combustion efficiency. After running a set of Edelbrocks and a set of Offies, I have used Edmunds on my last two engines. I like them so much that there is a set of brand new, never installed Offenhauser 8BA heads up on my mezzanine. They were slated for my 258" "hot rod" engine, but got ignored after I read "'Ol Ron's" take on these heads and confirmed it with a set of used Edmunds that I got cheap locally.

Okay, sparkplug in transfer area. I have a very hard time to see this resulting performance/ torque gains. this is something I'd like to see test data or numbers? Flame front travels faster, how? Do you use less advance?

quench is another story, lets focus sparkplug location. I have never seen these Edmuns heads in real life, by the pictures chamber is nothing special, only plug location is different than other manufacturers?
 
Okay, sparkplug in transfer area. I have a very hard time to see this resulting performance/ torque gains. this is something I'd like to see test data or numbers? Flame front travels faster, how? Do you use less advance?

quench is another story, lets focus sparkplug location. I have never seen these Edmuns heads in real life, by the pictures chamber is nothing special, only plug location is different than other manufacturers?

Just watched David Freiburger’s latest YT vid on timing. He said essentially the flame front travels at the same speed regardless of engine speed.
 
If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, look up on Youtube the videos made by David Vizard. Incredibly informative
 
Just so you know there is a difference, here are some pictures that show it. The first is looking straight down the plug hole. Nary a valve head in sight. The second is the plugs I use installed in the head. It is a Champion L82YC. In Champion nomenclature, "L" means 1/2" reach (full 1/8" more than stock) and the "Y" means "extended tip", which you can run with Edmunds heads. The third picture is of a regular plug in the same head. Of course the flame front speed is essentially the same; it's where it starts from that makes the difference.

Bottom line? There is a physical difference with the Edmunds heads, and my limited experience tells me it makes a difference. I would love to have some actual dyno work done, but that's just not in the cards.
 

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Just watched David Freiburger’s latest YT vid on timing. He said essentially the flame front travels at the same speed regardless of engine speed.

Correct. The way to get faster burning velocity is for example methanol. Spark plug placement has nothing to do with this.
 
Just so you know there is a difference, here are some pictures that show it. The first is looking straight down the plug hole. Nary a valve head in sight. The second is the plugs I use installed in the head. It is a Champion L82YC. In Champion nomenclature, "L" means 1/2" reach (full 1/8" more than stock) and the "Y" means "extended tip", which you can run with Edmunds heads. The third picture is of a regular plug in the same head. Of course the flame front speed is essentially the same; it's where it starts from that makes the difference.

Bottom line? There is a physical difference with the Edmunds heads, and my limited experience tells me it makes a difference. I would love to have some actual dyno work done, but that's just not in the cards.

Thanks, good pictures. There really is a difference!

My thoughts:
Good thing is possibility to get a bit more compression and real tight valve to head clearence. A good way to build high compression flathead. result is good for low-end torque.

Downsides are plug hanging out middle of transfer area. thats where intake stroke flow happens. at compression stroke its for sure creating more turbulence. However, flathead chamber has really good turbulence by design.
I don't buy that idea about plug placement gives any measurable burning process effect on flathead. that is if plug is in the chamber, not quench area. Combustion pressure will be the same with any plug location? And real question is: Why all flathead engines do not use this feature? If it is so superior?

All of this is just theoretical. Flathead will allways work:D
 
Eddie Meyer is legendary. The original stuff is collectible. The new H&H castings are spot on. But yeah, you're paying a premium. Back in the day Meyer heads were the gold standard for flathead performance. They still are if you want authenticity. Offy is the budget alternative. Both work. Depends on your build.
 
Eddie Meyer is legendary. The original stuff is collectible. The new H&H castings are spot on. But yeah, you're paying a premium. Back in the day Meyer heads were the gold standard for flathead performance. They still are if you want authenticity. Offy is the budget alternative. Both work. Depends on your build.

Actually, out in the real world, new Offenhauser's usually run around $1500 per set, while the Edelbrock's are down around $1000. Even used heads are getting spendy, especially from the "less popular" manufacturers.
 
Just to stick my nose in here: "Back in the day Meyer heads were the gold standard for flathead performance."

To me that is a totally subjective opinion (as most of ours are). I'm not aware of any scientifically done dyno tests that compared EM heads to all the others -> Edelbrock, Offy, Sharp, Evans, Navarro, Fenton, etc..

If somebody has some complete data - done on the SAME engine, I'd like to see it.
 
Just to stick my nose in here: "Back in the day Meyer heads were the gold standard for flathead performance."

To me that is a totally subjective opinion (as most of ours are). I'm not aware of any scientifically done dyno tests that compared EM heads to all the others -> Edelbrock, Offy, Sharp, Evans, Navarro, Fenton, etc..

If somebody has some complete data - done on the SAME engine, I'd like to see it.

I agree, Dale and would be interested to see any data to substantiate that claim.
 
When I first responded to this thread, it was in response to tubmans allegation that the only heads that were really different were Edmonds.... was simply pointing out, that early 21 stud EM heads had a different chamber design from stock also. I have run Edmonds 8BA heads on a 284 cu in engine I built, with extended reach plugs, following Ol Ron's advise, which tubman also heeds.... Also ran Canadian aluminum C7RA heads on the same engine. Sorry, didn't notice any difference in performance. Actually, was quite disappointed in how the big cube engine ran.
Anyone that's followed my ramblings over the years knows I am a fan of 21 stud engines. Sorry, I do not have data to prove anything, however I used the same engine in my 35 over the years and modified it as I acquired various components. With each modification, there was a definite [not imagined] increase in performance. One mod was fitting EM heads which replaced the stock aluminum factory heads. I can vouch that there was a noticeable improvement...
 
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Here's my two cents to add to this post in regards to chamber design. In Brian's post above he writes Now if we raise the roof that'll improve the breathing but have the adverse effect of lowering the c/r. And asks the question Or will it? Here's my answer to Brian's important question its a long answer but hopefully will give everyone more information to think about.

What I have found each time I opened up the combustion chamber in our race flathead engines to increase breathing engine output increased. The static compression ratio would be lower. BUT would this reduce power output ? Since we run a blower on the race engine the effect of better breathing and reduced compression actually improved the power out put.
Since many of you reading this would likely not run a blower I'm sure you will ask what would happen with just carburetor's. I can answer this with the results from an experiment we did August 2024 at Speedweek.

In 2024 At Speedweek after we established two blown flathead records well over 200 MPH we removed the blower and in its place installed a two deuce tunnel ram intake I fabricated from aluminum tubing. The two barrel carbs were Holley's the type used on the tri power set ups from the muscle car era in the sixtys. They were pretty much stock factory style replacement carbs.
Driving the race car was rookie Carly Moody a young female who has a great desire to be able to drive a car on the salt. Our blower records set that year varied between 211 and 219 MPH.

Carly set a record as well with the two deuce combination at 158.767 top speed on one run was just shy of 160 MPH. On the time slip there's additional details as follows outside air temp for the runs were 101 degrees with a density altitude of 7777 feet. Density altitude means not much air engines need to breath just like us the thankfully the increased port flow idea in our flathead engine without the blower allowed the engine to still make power turning 5500 RPM during the entire three mile run.

Think about that for a moment this was not a purpose built high compression flathead engine. It was the same low COMPRESION and HIGH port flow breathing engine used for our blower.
The way I see it port flow is far more important in a flathead than compression.
Ronnieroadster

An added note if interested I can add the details in a separate post from our experience this year at Bonneville Speed Week setting two more records this time running an 8BA block with ARDUN overhead valve Heads. Same experiment as above with the blower and then remove blower and run with two deuces.

Can you reveal what the compression ratio was/is? For an all out race engine operating at 5K rpm, it would make sense that airflow is an absolute critical factor in making power.
I’m curious to know what difference in power my pair of C69A engines would have all other things being equal. Both are truck engines used for industrial purposes. They both have the large cleanout in the oil pan, and both came with the heavy duty 4-sp trans. One block is factory relived and came with the cast C7RA-A heads, the other block is not factory relived and came with the factory Canadian aluminum heads.
From what I recall, checking with the large spreadsheet that someone put together giving CRs for all types of heads, bores, etc, my combo gave a CR of around 7.4 IIRC. Now checking with Google AI, it says with the factory relief, my CR with the C7RA-A heads, and 0.060” overbore, my static compression ratio is 7.0:1. It says the factory reliefs added about 4.5 cc to the volume. I understand that you have to take everything Google AI says with a grain of salt. Lol! BTW, I’m running a vintage Edmunds 2x2 intake with dual 94s with progressive linkage.
 
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