When was the date my Model A was built? A697897
- Thread starter Winter
- Start date
Winter - it's difficult to tell exactly when your Model A was built just from the number you gave. Unfortunately, the Model A production records were lost in a fire in the 1950's (I think, someone please corret me if I disremember), so we have to do some detective work.
The way numbering worked, the ENGINES were stamped with a consecutive number when they passed inspection at the manufacturing facility in Detroit. The engines were then shipped to the various assembly plants, and the frames were (most of the time) stamped with that engine number when the engine was installed in the frame. So the actual assembly of the car was after the engine was stamped. General opinion is that up to three months could have passed between engine acceptance and assembly of its car, so an engine stamped in say December might actually be installed in a car as late as February the following year.
I presume that the number above is from the engine installed in your car. That six digit number, if it is the original number (see below), indicates that the ENGINE was accepted in early December 1928. So your car, IF THAT IS THE ORIGINAL ENGINE, may have been built anywhere from December 1928 to say February 1929. If your car is a 1930 Sport coupe then that is definitely not the original engine. You can learn all you want to know about engine numbers (and likely a lot you didn't really want to know) here.
But - in the Model A era engines did not last as long as modern engines do. Lubricants were less effective, roads were dustier, cylinder walls may not have been made of as good an iron alloy as modern engines, and so on. When an engine needed rebuilding, it was quite common to pull the engine, hop on down to your local Pep Boys, Western Auto, Sears or whatever and just swap out for another engine that been rebuilt by some production line somewhere (we did the same thing with Volkswgen Beetle engines when I was growing up). So the engine and frame number would end up being mismatched. Sometimes the "new" engine was restamped with the original engine number, sometimes not. It was kind of hit and miss. And your engine may have had a number restamped into it somewhere along the way that doesn't correspond with its original manufacturing date.
A complicating factor is that what we now know as Titles didn't appear until well after the Model A era. So a Model A that did not have a title might have had one created using the number of the engine that was installed at the time, since the frame number is not visible with the body installed on the car.
There were manufacturing evolutions along the way. The best way I can recommend to determine a closer date of when your car might have been built is to consult the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards, and look for key points that might enable you to look for changeover dates for various components to pin down dates. You do need to keep in mind that if your car is not 100% original then some parts may have been changed out to ones that do not correspond to the original.
The frame number, if it exists, is stamped on the left frame side rail under the splash pans, usually just behind the motor mount (see attached photo). You cannot get to see that number unless you at least jack up the body.
The RG&JS has a section on tools that discusses jacks.
The way numbering worked, the ENGINES were stamped with a consecutive number when they passed inspection at the manufacturing facility in Detroit. The engines were then shipped to the various assembly plants, and the frames were (most of the time) stamped with that engine number when the engine was installed in the frame. So the actual assembly of the car was after the engine was stamped. General opinion is that up to three months could have passed between engine acceptance and assembly of its car, so an engine stamped in say December might actually be installed in a car as late as February the following year.
I presume that the number above is from the engine installed in your car. That six digit number, if it is the original number (see below), indicates that the ENGINE was accepted in early December 1928. So your car, IF THAT IS THE ORIGINAL ENGINE, may have been built anywhere from December 1928 to say February 1929. If your car is a 1930 Sport coupe then that is definitely not the original engine. You can learn all you want to know about engine numbers (and likely a lot you didn't really want to know) here.
But - in the Model A era engines did not last as long as modern engines do. Lubricants were less effective, roads were dustier, cylinder walls may not have been made of as good an iron alloy as modern engines, and so on. When an engine needed rebuilding, it was quite common to pull the engine, hop on down to your local Pep Boys, Western Auto, Sears or whatever and just swap out for another engine that been rebuilt by some production line somewhere (we did the same thing with Volkswgen Beetle engines when I was growing up). So the engine and frame number would end up being mismatched. Sometimes the "new" engine was restamped with the original engine number, sometimes not. It was kind of hit and miss. And your engine may have had a number restamped into it somewhere along the way that doesn't correspond with its original manufacturing date.
A complicating factor is that what we now know as Titles didn't appear until well after the Model A era. So a Model A that did not have a title might have had one created using the number of the engine that was installed at the time, since the frame number is not visible with the body installed on the car.
There were manufacturing evolutions along the way. The best way I can recommend to determine a closer date of when your car might have been built is to consult the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards, and look for key points that might enable you to look for changeover dates for various components to pin down dates. You do need to keep in mind that if your car is not 100% original then some parts may have been changed out to ones that do not correspond to the original.
The frame number, if it exists, is stamped on the left frame side rail under the splash pans, usually just behind the motor mount (see attached photo). You cannot get to see that number unless you at least jack up the body.
The RG&JS has a section on tools that discusses jacks.
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Keith True
Well-known member
Look on Vince Falters Ford garage website and you can find out the month your engine was stamped.He has a good chart on there.
woofa.express
Well-known member
That was a comprehensive and excellent reply to Winter you provided Jay Jay. I enjoyed reading it. And you too Keith True.
Brentwood Bob
Well-known member
I used a rubbing to capture the frame number. Also handy for reregistering a model a with a California dmv.
Jim Mason
Well-known member
http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/numbers.html
Your engine left the break-in stand 12/3/28
If the frame number matches the engine was put in the frame up to 60 days (or more) after that
Your engine left the break-in stand 12/3/28
If the frame number matches the engine was put in the frame up to 60 days (or more) after that
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That's the link I put in my reply, end of the third paragraph. Ford Garage is an excellent source for just about everything.
JJ
Well, if you consider around 5 million Model As over 4 years, assuming 7 day/week and minimal holidays, that's an average of about 3500/day. Not including industrial engines. Staggering!
Gary WA
Well-known member
As per your Number it is Dec 1928 tool kit as in photo attached!
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BButturff
Senior Member
All good information above and then we had re-stamping where the block number pad was ground off (looks smooth) and re-stamped with a number. Sometimes this was the number from the engine block that was replaced, sometimes with the number on the title and sometimes with a number a re-builder came up with.
ModelA29
Well-known member
Actually there were 5,600 engines stamped that day. For some reason there were no engines stamped between 700,001 - 704,000. 4,000 numbers were not used.
At the peak I think they reached just over 9,000 a day.
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