Reproduction "A" rear hub and drum assemblies

4

400A

Senior Member
I have a club members car in for some brake work and his rear hubs and drums are shot. Does anyone have any experience with the "new" reproduction hub/drum assemblies carried by some of the big suppliers? I am particularly interested in fit, function and if anyone has inspected one after it has been in service a while. I would be using original OEM bearings. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
 
The cast iron drums are much better than the old pressed steel parts and as mentioned, it's hard to beat Randy Gross's products and prices.
 
The problem with the Model A steel drums is the steel wears "thin." And without a mass of iron to absorb/dissipate heat, the thin drums "expand" when the brakes are applied - leading to the typical Model A "brake fade."

Ford himself at the end of the Model A era recognized the inherent limitation of pressed steel drums and the very last of the Model A made incorporated steel centers with a cast iron perimeter - which were MUCH more resistant to fade. The convention was carried over into the Model B era - and actually for much of the mechanical brake era subsequently.

Cast iron has ALL the advantage.

Many, in an effort to improve Model A braking, have converted to hydraulic brakes, thinking the "old" mechanical brakes were the problem. While the tendency of the industry in the 30s and 40s generally was to go to hydraulics, the advantage of hydraulic brakes over mechanical were NOT because of any inherent lack in mechanical brakes.

For a short while I was intending to convert Avatar over to hydraulics: I actually assembled the necessary Ford hydraulic backing plates - and discovered the "modifications" that would be necessary to both the axles AND the backing plates to accomplish this. In my discovery I found that even hydraulic brakes of that era needed to be "adjusted" as self-adjusting brakes were more a post WWII non-Ford idea.

So if hydraulics brakes still needed to be adjusted, and offer only their cast iron drums to eliminate fade, why bother to convert? So the idea got buried, and the brake backing plates and parts eventually went to the dump. (Well, in those days those parts were common and could be picked up for $5 per backing plate.)

A friend is creating a "rod" from a 1930 Coupe basket-case. He's done a dandy job on the bodywork, but then the decision came to what to use for brakes. I recommended he NOT do the standard/usual hydraulic brake conversion, be it drums or disks, and instead go with Model A mechanical brakes and cast iron drums. "You'll stop better and more predictably with the original setup." We went back and forth a couple of times on this. I think I've won him over.

Joe K
 
OT, but how true do original hubs and new cast iron drums typically run after being properly fastened together? Do you have to skim the drums to make it run true?
 
Randy Gross will "skim" the cast iron drums after attached to the hubs so that they run true. He will also arc the shoes to fit the new drums. He will also supply completely rebuilt backing plates ready to install.

I am very happy with the mechanical brakes on my Model A. It is a heavy Fordor. I have added the Flat Head Ted kits and that helps a lot, but not without first getting every other part brought up to snuff. I recently helped a friend who's front brake wedges were worn to the point where the shoes would not retract when the brakes were applied.
 
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I bought/installed new assembled rear reproduction cast iron drums and hubs a few years ago and no problems. Have not taken them off to see how they're wearing.
 
nkaminar said:
Randy Gross will "skim" the cast iron drums after attached to the hubs so that they run true. He will also arc the shoes to fit the new drums. He will also supply completely rebuilt backing plates ready to install.

I am very happy with the mechanical brakes on my Model A. It is a heavy Fordor. I have added the Flat Head Ted kits and that helps a lot, but not without first getting every other part brought up to snuff. I recently helped a friend whose front brake wedges were worn to the point where the shoes would not retract when the brakes were applied.
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I have Randy Gross backing plates, drums and shoes that I installed on the rear when I put my Mitchell O/D in about 6k miles ago. But in my haste I did not check the centering of the shoes. A new drum will, if turned, run true to the hub. New shoes will, if arced, conform perfectly to the drum. But the relationship between the drum and the shoes to make sure the shoes contact that perfectly round drum properly as installed is influenced by the mounting of the backing plate. Otherwise you might get surging and less than effective application of the stopping force. It’s on my list for the winter, although here on the left coast we continue to drive through the winter.
 
I have a friend that adapted '32 Ford mechanical brakes to the front of his Model A, leaving the rear stock with cast iron drums. Now the car really stops good! The '32 has larger cast iron drums.
 
JayJay said:
It’s on my list for the winter, although here on the left coast we continue to drive through the winter.
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Isn't that a *****? We drive our cars year round in SoCal and have no time to work on them. Only solution is the have a"spare" Model A.
 
I spoke with Randy Gross today and ordered my hub/drum assemblies. Super nice guy and very helpful. I look forward to receiving the parts.
Thank you to the Fordbarn folks who recommended him. This forum is a great resource.
 
Jay Jay, The Flat Head Ted kit will eliminate the need to center the shoes. That is addition to self actuating action that really helps with the stopping power and helps with uniform shoe wear.
 
nkaminar said:
Jay Jay, The Flat Head Ted kit will eliminate the need to center the shoes. That is addition to self actuating action that really helps with the stopping power and helps with uniform shoe wear.
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Did you do front only or front and rear?
 
I did front and rear. I used the kit that did not include the centering pins. On the rears the adjustment ends float and the activating ends have the cams that slide. So the shoes move to the center of the drum. I am not sure how much the centering pins help. I did weld up the roller tracks and filed them flat.
 
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Bruce of MN said:
OT, but how true do original hubs and new cast iron drums typically run after being properly fastened together? Do you have to skim the drums to make it run true?
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They will run as true as the hubs are. Once the drum has been removed, we clean & mediablast the hubs, -then I true them in the lathe. It doesn't take much (.i.e.: 0.005" - 0.010") to clean them up. I use a specially built mandrel centering off of the races in the front, -or the hub bearing area of the rear. Once the new drum has been installed, the shoe lining surfaces are machined where they will be true with the axis'.

Since this has gotten off topic from the original question, the new repro hubs are decent. Many of the original rear hubs are worn excessively meaning they need to be replaced.

FWIW, I made an aluminum 'plug' that we use to check the ID of the bearing area. With your thumb over the end where the axle protrudes, we insert the 'plug' into the hub and then pull it out quickly. If it makes a pop noise, then the bearing clearance is within spec. If it doesn't, it means the race area has worn oversize which will cause the drum to not be centered too the Brake Housing (Backing) Plate when the vehicle's weight is on the hub/drum.
 
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