Test Results - Helmet Dist on my Allen Syncrograph

[Ziggster]

Will be removing the helmet dist I rebuilt from my C59A tonight. Plan to test it tomorrow on my Allen Syncrograph in preparation for the first start-up of the C59A which was also rebuilt. Got all the parts from 3rd Gen. Here is the rebuild thread if interested.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292865&highlight=Helmet

 

[Ziggster]

There she be. Destroyed the gasket to the timing gear cover as I had put some silicone/gasket maker on it. I think I have a spare. Will need to check tomorrow. Going to interesting to see how it performs against the crab.

 

[petehoovie]

There she be. Destroyed the gasket to the timing gear cover as I had put some silicone/gasket maker on it. I think I have a spare. Will need to check tomorrow. Going to interesting to see how it performs against the crab.

 

[Ziggster]

Got it it setup in the machine, and went to calibrate the dwell meter. Well, no response on the meter when I hand rotate the shaft. Have the condenser and coil installed. Have continuity between the condenser (pos - distributor lead) and the spring contact. Then decided maybe the paint on the housing was the issue. Cleaned off the back side where the gasket was with a Rotoloc disk. Did the same on the faces around the holes where the mounting bolts would go. Still no reading. Check continuity more. Have continuity from spring contact from coil to springs on breaker points. Did not have continuity on other side (fixed) when contacts closed. Futzing around some more (just rotating shaft by hand), and now noticed the RHS (passenger side) set of contacts now have continuity when closed. The LHS (driver’s side), still has no continuity when contacts are closed. Guess, I have to try to clean them.

 

[Ziggster]

Cleaned both sets of contacts with some 600 grit emery cloth. Thought I had continuity across both sets of points, but still do not have continuity across either. When I thought I had continuity, I think both probes were contacting the main housing. I threw the crab back into the machine, and dwell meter works as well as the strobe lights. I realized during the last test of the crab distributor, I had forgotten to re-install the condenser. That would probably explain the weird advance readings I got.
At a loss at how there can be no continuity across either set of points when they are “closed”. Very strange, or I’m doing something stupid.

 

[Ziggster]

Thought I was losing my mind. Decided to pull the assembly. For sure had no continuity between the contacts for both sets of points! Crazy! I guess this is what happens when things sit for a few years. I’m glad now I checked this. Separated the contacts with a small Allen hex key that I slid between the cam and wiper arms. Slid in a piece of folded 600 grit cloth. Pulled the allen hex key so points closed on the emery cloth, and ran the cloth back and forth a few times. Bingo! Now have continuity!

 

[rockfla]

Sound like you are "grounding" somewhere.....Did you check the points to see IF the metal tab is sagging and contacting the base plate, I noticed sometime that you can push them down enough that they touch the base plate sometimes, ALSO I ran into this on my Sun machine, is your rotor new IF not is it cracked and grounding to the dive shaft? I had a cracked rotor and was getting NO fire on my sun machine, like you, put a known good distributor on and it worked like a champ. YOU can also put some shrink wrap on the drive shaft in the middle where the rotor fits to insure against any grounding. I have an 11A right now that is presenting the same way....haven't dug into it yet!!! just a couple of Ideas anyway

 

[Ziggster]

Contacts look fine. Look fairly centred. Rotor is new. Believe it or not it was “just” a film of “corrosion” on the surfaces of the contacts. All parts were new when I rebuilt it except the main shaft. Got a used shaft from 3rd Gen. Also has the crab advance plate.

 

[rockfla]

Thanks for sharing your post, good to always here and see the solutions!!!

 

[Ziggster]

Finally! Up and running. Seems you have to block off the RHS (driver’s side) set of points to do the dwell steps. Advance is set to “0”, cam is at 200 rpm, and dwell is 20 degrees. Never checked the gap from when it was rebuilt. Back then I had set it to 0.015”, but not sure if it’s still 0.015”.

 

[Ziggster]

Got to take a break. Should mention I had to use a small hammer and brass punch to get the assembly out. Not sure if this is normal, and can’t remember what I had done when I disssembled this a few years ago. Did notice that the gasket maker made its’ way down into the space between the outer housing and the inner housing.

 

[Ziggster]

Stopped by a local CarQuest to see if they had a file for points. He kinda of smirked. lol! Guy my age, so he knew what I was talking about. He checked stk, and it did show up in the system, but no stk. lol!

Ordered it off Amazon. Will be here Sun/Mon. I read somewhere that you shouldn’t use sandpaper because the glue will leave a residue.

 

[petehoovie]

Stopped by a local CarQuest to see if they had a file for points. He kinda of smirked. lol! Guy my age, so he knew what I was talking about. He checked stk, and it did show up in the system, but no stk. lol!

Ordered it off Amazon. Will be here Sun/Mon. I read somewhere that you shouldn’t use sandpaper because the glue will leave a residue.

 

[mcgarrett]

I use wet/dry sandpaper and then clean by spraying carb cleaner on a business card and pull between the points to make sure no residue is left.

 

[Ziggster]

Yeah, after using the emery cloth I used some brake cleaner on a piece of shop towel to clean the contacts being careful not to get any on their parts like the cam.

Not sure if I can get back to it later today. If not, can’t work on it again until Sat.

 

[Ziggster]

Managed to squeeze on some time to do further testing. Discovered the following:

1. I had tested it incorrectly with regards which set of points to block off. It’s the same procedure as the crab style. You should initially block off the LHS (passenger side) set of points. I did the opposite (blocking off the RHS - driver’s side) because I wasn’t getting a dwell reading if I blocked off the LHS. This leads to the next issue.

2. I realized I still was not getting continuity on the RHS points when closed. Not sure how I measured continuity when it was disassembled. This was again very frustrating. Points appeared closed, but there was no continuity. Continued to clean contacts as before, and still no improvement. Then decided to adjust the contacts such that I could see the fixed contact push up against the spring contact. Success! Crazy how sensitive this is. Could explain why folks have “unexplainable” issues with their distributors when everything “looks fine”.

Proceeded to test the dwell, but this time blocking off the LHS set of points.

1. Set gap to 0.015” on RHS.
2. Set rpm to 200.
3. Dwell was at 19-20 degrees.
4. Set gap to 0.014”.
5. Dwell at 16-17 degrees. Going wrong way!
6. Decided to set dwell while running at 200 rpm, and adjust according after loosening the new Allen soc hex head screws.
7. Adjust until dwell was 22 degrees.
8. Tighten up Allen screws.
9. Now onto checking the dwell on the LHS side of points.
10. Followed same process in terms of adjusting while operating at 200 rpm.
11. Adjust dwell to 35-36 degrees.

 

[Ziggster]

Next was checking advance. Note: Advance is initially set to “0”.

1. Set to 180 rpm.
2. Set switch to “SYN” mode.
3. Centre “0” on degree wheel on lower strobe light.
4. Stop machine (after first slowing down speed to min).
5. Adjust advance 2 degrees according to graduations on window/plate. Turn CW to do so. Note: Dist turns CCW.
6. Set rpm again to 180 rpm.
7. Check that strobe had advanced. Hard to tell with one light not working, but appears advance is about 2-4 degrees.
8. Set to 600 rpm.
9. Advance should read between 10.5 - 11 degrees which it did.

Note: Vacuum brake parts are still not installed for this test.

Will test vacuum brake on Sat.

 

[rockfla]

You seem to have gotten it figured out, I was wondering about your previous post on blocking the Right hand points first. You know, there is this great video on Youtube...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqUH2ZnSSY even though its a Sun and not an Allen, that walks you trough the whole process. Your initial 200 RPMS is sorta low as that is only 400 Idle RPM's on the motor BUT I don't think that will have too much of an effect?

 

[Ziggster]

Thanks! It takes me a while to understand something new. I’m a visual type person, watching/ re-watching vids. Pretty sure that’s one of the vids I watched. He used 200 rpm for dwell, and 180 for initial advance. Checked dwell again at 1,000 and no change.

 

[Ziggster]

Ignition point file arrived yesterday while I was in Montreal. Will start checking the vacuum brake operation shortly