1933 model b generator

[FrankWest]

The parts book shows B-10128 bushing 30-34.

Bob

Thanks Bob, I needed that!

 

[DavidG]

Bruce,

With all due respect, he should not just simply pretend that it is a Model A generator. That's why I asked to see a photo of it as it is a 46-10000 generator and not a B or A prefix generator. While many of the parts are common like the rear bushing, at the front of the armature the only common part is the bearing assembly and parts 10082, 10098, 10163, 10099 all are unique to the 46-10000 generator with the die cast front end plate and all carry a "46" part number prefix. Please see the photo of those parts and the front end plate that I furnished above.

 

[Bob C]

Frank, I see from David's post above you have a 46-1000 and he says the
bushing is the same but the green book shows bushing 18-10128 for
that generator. I don't know what the difference is.

Bob

 

[FrankWest]

c and g ford parts only has a generator rear bushing beginning from 1937 of a similar part number. I will have to confine my search to model A parts
http://cgfordparts.com/ufolder/fordpart.php?number=78-10128

Mac's has a part listed in their v8 catalog for a front generator bearing for model b, but when i put the number in at their web sit to order, it calls it a model T generator parts!
Oiy vehhh

 

[DavidG]

Bob C,

It would seem to be another example of the pitfalls of using a service part catalogue published 14 years after the last vehicle using the subject generator rolled off the assembly line. The '33-'34 service part catalogue lists B-10128 as the bushing used in '30-'34 generator rear end plates.

 

[Bob C]

OK I'm confused, nothing new, when did the 46-1000 come out?
I don't see it in the 1937 parts book.

Bob

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

The 46 generator had a STRANGE history. It replaced the B/same as A generator for service, then at some point in the later '30's the old B generator was re-listed as service replacement for the 46!
I don't know exactly when, but the 46 verion came in during '33-4.
On the parts differences...bearing and bushing remain the same, the electrical coils and armature remain along with brushes and stuff. The changed parts are mostly hard parts, probably not needed to freshen this thing up unless Frank breaks his snap ring or something...

 

[DavidG]

Initially, the generator used on '33 model fours was a direct carryover of the generator used on '32 fours. As a running change, the 46-10000 was adopted. It is easily distinguished from the generator used previously by its die cast front cover (compared to a stamped steel front cover used previously). It still used the same back cover plate as the previous version and its electrical output was through a fixed threaded stud, also like the previous version. The generator shown in FrankWest's photos above is that version of 46-10000.

Two additional changes were adopted in the '34 model year, likely at or near Job #1. One was to adopt the vented rear cover plate used on '34 V-8 generators and also like the '34 V-8 generator, a two-wire red and black lead replaced the threaded output stud. Once the inventory of the previous versions of four-cylinder generators was exhausted, 46-10000 became the service replacement for all period four-cylinder generators. That explains why so many four-cylinder generators with die cast front covers are around compared to '33-'34 four-cylinder cars and trucks.

 

[ndnchf]

Ressurecting a very old discussion!

Some of you may know that I restore Ford 6v generators and refurbish original cutouts on the side. I'm working on this one now. It is very similar to the generator discussed earlier. This appeared to be an unmolested example when I started. But rather than a terminal post, it used the rubber grommet with a single output wire running to the cutout. The field wire is grounded internally, not run outside to a cutout mounting screw as was done on later V8 generators.

I'm trying to determine which cutout would be correct. The open foot type with Ford script as used on late model A and '32, or a closed foot type. We know the closed foot type with the "A" stamp and ford script started around July 1934. So it seems there may be three options; an open foot model A type (but without the L-bracket), a closed foot without the "A" stamp, or a closed foot with the "A" stamp.

Here is a photo of the progress so far, and a 1932 post mount V8 generator I finished recently just to show what I do. I appreciate your input.
Steve

 

[DavidG]

I use only the open foot cutout version for pre-34 generators.


Great workmanship!

 

[rotorwrench]

The EFVC V8 Times magazine had a very good article on cut outs a few issues back. Even the B model owners can benefit in a membership with the club. The information covered cut outs right on up to the advent of the regulated two brush units. It has info on the two stage relay cut outs as well.

 

[ndnchf]

I use only the open foot cutout version for pre-34 generators.


Great workmanship!

Thanks. I don't know what year this is, but since it has the rubber bushing and wire to the cutout, I think it is a later one, despite having non-vented end plates. Maybe they were using up those endplates on the less glamorous 4 cyl engines. So I tend to think a closed foot may be appropriate. In reality, it was a time of transition they were probably using whatever was in the bin. I just dont have much documentation on these late 4 cyl generators.

 

[rotorwrench]

There is truth to the mixing of parts at certain rebuilders after the production of the 4-cylinder cars was over. Early units had the output terminal to attach to the cut out but after the 2-stage relay cutouts came about, they went to wires exiting the case so that the 2-stage unit could be attached or not depending on configuration of the generator control system in use. There may have been variances of end plates and pulleys but the rest of the parts shared similarities and rebuilders took advantage of that depending on supply and demand.

 

[rockfla]

Here is what is in the restoration book

 

[petehoovie]

Here is what is in the restoration book

 

[ndnchf]

It seems there were a number of mixed parts variations. I restore a lot of generators and can usually tell if someone has had it apart, which is 90%+ of them. This one Im pretty confident was all original. The cutout was long gone, so that left me with the question. The odd thing is that it had the original (crumbling) rubber grommet, original output wire to the cutout, but the field grounded internally under the pole shoe. It did not run out to ground on the cutout screw. So it seems like yet another odd mix from the factory. I chose to restore it the way it was. So it will only have the single red wire going to the cutout. I'll use an open foot cutout. Photos show how the fields are grounded internally and the original factory output wire.

 

[koates]

I have overhauled many many of these Ford generators over the years and have never seen the field ground wire connected to that metal tab under the pole shoe. It seems like a rough way of making that ground connection with potential continuity problems there. Much more positive if taken out to the cut out mounting screw. Most people restoring these cars would not have a clue regarding these type of details on their generators. Seems that there are a lot of crap reproduction cut outs used with incorrect terminals and plating finish on them and a tiny little diode inside which is a real turn off for me. The original FORD cut out is the very best quality unit you can use on your generator. Regards, Kevin.

 

[ndnchf]

I've seen a few of them with fields grounded this way (I've actually seen 4 different ways they grounded the fields). In this case the wire is soldered to a U-shaped shoe that wraps around the field. The bottom of the shoe is clamped tightly between the field winding and the case. It is a very solid connection.

 

[ndnchf]

The EFVC V8 Times magazine had a very good article on cut outs a few issues back. Even the B model owners can benefit in a membership with the club. The information covered cut outs right on up to the advent of the regulated two brush units. It has info on the two stage relay cut outs as well.

That is Dave Gunnarson's article in the Jan/Feb 2024 issue. Dave is a good friend of mine, and in a small way I helped with that article. He also references my youtube cutout video. A lot of great info there. BTW, Dave is the current national president of the EFV8 Club.

 

[ndnchf]

I backtracked and decided to route the field ground wire outside to a cutout screw, more in accordance with the current restoration guidance. A potential buyer will likely expect it that way. Its all done and been running nicely on my test stand. I went with a refurbished original open foot cutout.

Appologies to the OP if it seems I hijacked this discussion, but it seemed appropriate to keep this info all together.
Steve