Souping up a Model A

[ModelA29]

The above is very good advice, but in an earlier post someone said that babbitt should not be used with compression above 5.5:1, this is not true. I run B engines with bigger than A bearings, and have run 153 MPH at Bonneville, with 10:1 compression, on 100% babbitt and 167 on the same engine but with inserted rods and the same babbitted mains. full oil pressure of course. Babbitt was used at the Indy 500 for many years.

Here is one of Jim's B engines in the 4 Ever 4 club streamliner. I wonder what that 10:1 static compression ratio works out to with the turbo. This was last month when Jim and his wife Kathy hosted the 70th anniversary celebration of the club.
The club also has a roadster. It ran 133 at El Mirage with this Rutherford head. This one has Pontiac rods using inserts from a Perkins diesel. I haven't pulled to pan to see what the mains are but it has a cross drilled C crank.

 

[johnneilson]

Joe

I have had quite a few motors over the bench in the last few years and I spend quite a bit of time inspecting the condition before starting machining

The whipping of the Mod A crank was known in ‘28 when Hicks was working on developing the 40 hp
The decision to stay with the smaller journals was not well understood

But Babbitt comes in many grades or alloys and I suspect the one you looked at was a soft lead alloy
When I dig it out for inserts I can tell the difference immediately
The original Ford Babbitt is much harder and has a silverish hew or color to it

J

 

[ModelA29]

The 14 degrees of advance in a Model B distributor is ideal for most model A and B flat beads. they start easily and have good acceleration. Ford knew what they were doing in 1932

Let's not forget the Model B timing cover has the hole to set the timing 19 degrees BTDC. Adding the 14 degrees you get with the factory B setting you end up with 33 degrees total.
Vince Falter has a good breakdown on all the different timing covers on his site.

 

[Bruce of MN]

Pretty tricky, wood graining the spokes of those aluminum wheels.

 

[butch chase]

rather than change the timing cover we use the NuRex timing strip and a timing light. simple & inexpensive.

 

[nkaminar]

Any guess what the car in Post #17 cost to build? I will start at @200,000 but that is probably light. Look at all the photos before you guess.

 

[jeepguy1948]

I have Jim’s book, Jim’s cylinder head, and Jim’s cam. I’m a believer! He is providing you with his email address and is offering his assistance, priceless, don’t waste the opportunity.

 

[jeepguy1948]

My GOD, that Finnish Tudor is amazing! 14 degrees distributor advance is 28 degrees at the crankshaft. As mentioned above, a Model A (or B) motor is 200 CI, there is lots of room for more air and fuel. I’m not sure that even a 32/36 Weber is going to be enough if you really want to get some serious power but I don’t think that is what you are talking about and the Weber makes for excellent “driveability”. (You will need an electric fuel pump for the Weber).

 

[AzBob]

My GOD, that Finnish Tudor is amazing! 14 degrees distributor advance is 28 degrees at the crankshaft. As mentioned above, a Model A (or B) motor is 200 CI, there is lots of room for more air and fuel. I’m not sure that even a 32/36 Weber is going to be enough if you really want to get some serious power but I don’t think that is what you are talking about and the Weber makes for excellent “driveability”. (You will need an electric fuel pump for the Weber).

X2 on the above. I have a Weber 32/36 carb on my ’30 sport coupe (6:1 head) and concur with the above, best to have an electric fuel pump to supply the Weber carb.

 

[old31]

NK, back to your question on cost. $200-400K would not be a crazy number.

The number of hours that went into the build must have been through the roof. The design, the manufacture of custom parts, the wheels, engine, paint, chrome, and interior—everything was first-class.

Can anyone explain to me the idea behind their paint process? On page 79 the car is painted white, that does not look like primer. On page 80 the car is then painted black. Why black over white? Then on pa 81 the bottom half of the black body is sanded off and then on page 82 the car is finally painted in another color. Why that process?

 

[nkaminar]

Painting a car gloss black is an old trick to find any flaws in the body work. Any deviation from the true form will be more obvious than other colors.

I am not sure why they first painted it white, but painting in contrasting colors for different layers will point out any holidays in the paint (places that did not get enough paint). When sanding primer a very light spray of black will help when sanding.

Like I said, my estimate of $200,000 is probably light and you are probably more correct at $400,000.

 

[Bob Bidonde]

The experiences of hundreds shows that hi-compression cylinder heads of 5.5:1 and 6:1 do no damage to or shorten the life of babbitt bearings. To the contrary, high speed driving habits & low speed lugging the engine in high gear do negatively affect the life of babbitt bearings. Ford let cost avoidance overrule good design when it came to the engine's main bearings. The engine should have had a forth main bearing to properly support the crankshaft.

 

[Flathead]

Larger diameter journals like they used in the B engine are sufficient. The V-8 only has three main bearings and was not known for bottom end trouble. In terms of evolution the A crank was light years ahead of the T crank.

 

[nkaminar]

Also, running your ignition too advanced will drastically shorten the life of your rod bearings. Better to run 1 click retarded from the knee and adjust the advance to suit conditions.

 

[johnneilson]

The experiences of hundreds shows that hi-compression cylinder heads of 5.5:1 and 6:1 do no damage to or shorten the life of babbitt bearings. To the contrary, high speed driving habits & low speed lugging the engine in high gear do negatively affect the life of babbitt bearings. Ford let cost avoidance overrule good design when it came to the engine's main bearings. The engine should have had a forth main bearing to properly support the crankshaft.

After getting 40 hp out of the Model A engine, Harold Hicks determined the crank was not stiff/rigid enough. He recommended increasing the main journals up in size but was shot down.

There is no room to add a 4th journal, but you can add 2 for a 5 bearing setup.

BTW, Sept 2024 El Mirage meet we set a record in the V4F Gas Mod Roadster class at 133+ with a flathead Model A motor. The previous record was set in 2009.

 

[nkaminar]

The Burtz engine has five 2-inch main and 2-inch rod bearings. The rear main has two sets of inserts. The original engine was not designed for 100,000 miles between overhauls.