1930 mode A
- Thread starter J W B
- Start date
Bruce of MN
Well-known member
It is risky to charge into a task like this without having done your homework. Do you have this book?
https://www.brattons.com/MODEL-A-MECHANICS-HANDBOOK-VOL-1/productinfo/37580/
https://www.brattons.com/MODEL-A-MECHANICS-HANDBOOK-VOL-1/productinfo/37580/
Yes, can be done, but it’s not trivial. You will need to remove the valve chamber cover, cylinder head, valves, springs, keepers, lifters, oil pump drive gear, front cover and timing gear. What is your reason for doing this?
Y-Blockhead
Well-known member
You can't remove the lifters with the cam in place, but you will have to hold them up out of the way. I use wooden clothes pins.
For what it is worth, Ford used the same dumb *** design "mushroom" type lifters all the way up thru the Y-Block Y-8 era until they were discontinued in 1964.
Y-Blockhead
Well-known member
Bob, I'm not refering to the valves, I'm talking about the lifters.
Ford used the same design that you can't remove from the top, as far as I am aware, until 1964 when they discontinued using them.
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Y-Blockhead
Well-known member
Actually, I correct myself. When the FE series engines came out in 1958, they used hydraulic lifers that can be removed from the top. But I am talking about the solid lifters here.
Keith True
Well-known member
First off,do you have original type or adjustable lifters? With adjustables you can wrap a wire around the adjusting bolt,and loop it around the valve stem over the top of the block.With the springs out of the way there is lots of room to do this.If you have original lifters,are you REALLY going to use them with a new cam?Do you have the equipment to grind the stems to adjust them?
Fullraceflathead
Well-known member
When running a brand new camshaft you really wanna run brand new lifters on it otherwise you risk the chance of wiping out the cam!!!
Fullraceflathead
Well-known member
Has anyone actually compared the model A. lifter to the ford Y. block lifter I wonder how close they are can they actually be interchanged is the footprint on the Y. block lifter wider???
Expanding a bit on what Keith True stated above, if you do not have adjustable lifters already and are planning to reuse the original lifters in place you are taking a double risk: firstly, the bottoms of the lifters have worn to the shape of the old cam lobes, and you risk damaging the new camshaft with that pre-existing wear, and secondly, you will have a crap shoot on valve clearance. You would be far better off to replace the old lifters with new adjustables, which would solve both issues. If you have adjustable lifters in there already then the valve clearance issue goes away, but you still have the wear issue to consider.
You can still do this with the engine in the car. You'd need to drop the oil pan to gain access to the bottom of the lifter slots, hold the old lifters up while removing the camshaft, then holding the new lifters up while inserting the new camshaft. Frankly, for the PITA of working on your back, in my mind you'd be far ahead to pull the engine and do the work with the engine upside down on an engine stand or bench. You can use this opportunity to inspect the connecting rod and main bearings, inspect the clutch, and the like.
You can still do this with the engine in the car. You'd need to drop the oil pan to gain access to the bottom of the lifter slots, hold the old lifters up while removing the camshaft, then holding the new lifters up while inserting the new camshaft. Frankly, for the PITA of working on your back, in my mind you'd be far ahead to pull the engine and do the work with the engine upside down on an engine stand or bench. You can use this opportunity to inspect the connecting rod and main bearings, inspect the clutch, and the like.
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
The cam followers or tappets used in the early Ford V8 engines were straight side types. The four and six cylinder engines used the wide base followers. The term lifter generally describes the zero lash hydraulic types. Ford first used them for automobiles with the 1936 Lincoln V-12. The later 1949 Lincoln 337 V8 also had hydraulic lifters. The Lincoln Y-blocks had Hydraulic lifters as well. The term tappet can be used for any type of cam follower as can lifter so it's just another way of referring to the same thing.
The model A with non adjustable followers would require removal of the pan to replace them. The cam would be removed to allow that. I would check the block cam journals for wear since that rear one had a tendency to wear on early model A engines. A service bulletin was issued to drill an oil passage from the valve chamber down through into the rear bearing journal bore. Later engines were drilled from the factory. A loose cam can be noisy.
The model A with non adjustable followers would require removal of the pan to replace them. The cam would be removed to allow that. I would check the block cam journals for wear since that rear one had a tendency to wear on early model A engines. A service bulletin was issued to drill an oil passage from the valve chamber down through into the rear bearing journal bore. Later engines were drilled from the factory. A loose cam can be noisy.
Keith True
Well-known member
On a used engine in an A I don't think I would get too excited about matching up the cam with new lifters.Slow turning engine,old engine,and low valve spring pressures give you more than a good chance of being just fine.I would not try to use the old non-adjustables with a new cam though.Bouncing between grinding the stem of the valve to make it fit,and grinding the valve seat to drop it down to make it fit is just too much work.
Kurt in NJ
Well-known member
The original lifters usually have a small hole it the side that a pin can be put in to hold them up.
Big hammer
Well-known member
WHN he’s installing a touring cam with HC head vroom vroom
Sunny the Model A
Senior Member
To answer the question of if it can be done in the car, yes. You need to put a wooden block under the oil pan and jack it up gently so you can take the timing cover off.
nkaminar
Well-known member
I am in agreement with Jay Jay, post #13. It is much easier to work on the engine out of the car and on an engine stand. Plus, you can inspect the bearings and clutch components and pistons and rings and valve components. In the long run you will be happy that you did that and have some peace of mind when driving the car.
I find that people are reluctant to pull the engine for various reasons. The engine in a Model A is really simple to pull and to work on. Try pulling the engine out of a 2016 Diesel truck. You have to remove the body first and that is just the start. Instead of a few hours it will take a week or more.
I find that people are reluctant to pull the engine for various reasons. The engine in a Model A is really simple to pull and to work on. Try pulling the engine out of a 2016 Diesel truck. You have to remove the body first and that is just the start. Instead of a few hours it will take a week or more.