ONE Head Stud Alignment Issue

[Karl Wescott]

A 7/16" x 3/8" stepped stud might work. Keep tork under 50 ft lbs should be fine.

A thought here, if all other suggestions by those who have been there (and have both a tee shirt and a hat) dont pan out, would re-drilling the block, then using a stepped stud (oversize in the block and standard for the head) work?

 

[Shoebox]

Shoebox, Get someone with a lathe to make you an offset stud that will screw into the Time Cert block with enough off-set to align with the hole in the head. You would then screw in the ofset stud so that the offset portion aligns with the head hole. Whatever it cost to have that offset stud made is well worth it and will put your mind at ease.

First, as an experiment get a piece of 7/16 threaded mild steel rod or a 7/16-14 UNC bolt with a long threaded portion that you can cut and use as a prototype for the offset stud you need. It will take patience but you could do it.

Whatever you do don't mess with the block. Think this through

I believe that a combination of what your recommending with some of what Rockfla has mentioned might be the path to a solution. At this point I have done nothing but try to think this through. I do have that step stud coming in a day or so, probably won't be the solution, but we'll see. For now I'll get some 7/16-14 bolts and see if I can prototype the stud as I need it. I will not be messing with the block. Continued comments most welcome.

 

[rockfla]

Have you run a straight line from the top stud across your offset stud down to the bottom (maybe run a piece of tape between the bottom two studs and measure 1/2 way between them then run a piece of tape from the top stud down to your center line on the bottom two studs) to see and measure how far off center it is??? That number "might" answer a lot of "theory's" or at least eliminate some i.e. some of our pontifications might not be able to get there from here!!!! Just using your picture (Provided its a straight on shot, I took my rule and my dial calipers and I get about .050 off center. SO about between 1/32 and 1/16th of an inch split between the stud body and the head. I would think that's easily attainable....0125 off the stud body and another .0125 enlargement of your hole.

 

[19Fordy]

Shoebox: Be very careful not to beat on the stud to bend it straight as you will greatly increase the stress and strain on the hairline crack you mentioned earlier thereby enhancing the chances of a leak. Engine block cast iron, as you know, does not handle stress well. You don't want to solve one problem and in the process create another.
You will solve this problem so hang in there.

 

[glennpm]

X2 on Mart's suggestion, "Take it out and screw it into a couple or 3 nuts and hold them in a vise. Tap the stud in the direction you want. Refit it and hopefully it will be straight. It might take a couple of goes but at least the tapping is being done away from the block."

 

[Shoebox]

Shoebox: Be very careful not to beat on the stud to bend it straight as you will greatly increase the stress and strain on the hairline crack you mentioned earlier thereby enhancing the chances of a leak. Engine block cast iron, as you know, does not handle stress well. You don't want to solve one problem and in the process create another.
You will solve this problem so hang in there.

Rest assured, NO beating on the stud, got too much time/money to mess up the block. I'll be using yours and Rockfla's suggestions.

 

[rockfla]

Rest assured, NO beating on the stud, got too much time/money to mess up the block. I'll be using yours and Rockfla's suggestions.

Let Us know all the steps you took and how it worked out for you!!!!

 

[Shoebox]

Have you run a straight line from the top stud across your offset stud down to the bottom (maybe run a piece of tape between the bottom two studs and measure 1/2 way between them then run a piece of tape from the top stud down to your center line on the bottom two studs) to see and measure how far off center it is??? That number "might" answer a lot of "theory's" or at least eliminate some i.e. some of our pontifications might not be able to get there from here!!!! Just using your picture (Provided its a straight on shot, I took my rule and my dial calipers and I get about .050 off center. SO about between 1/32 and 1/16th of an inch split between the stud body and the head. I would think that's easily attainable....0125 off the stud body and another .0125 enlargement of your hole.

I have attempted to do what you suggested (which makes sense), the first pic is of the offending stud. For reference, second pic is a good stud. The stud holes in the head measure 0.46 according to my cheap caliper and you felt I should enlarge by .0125, that would leave me at 0.4725, what drill bit size would that be? Sorry I'm just not a machinist. The string does show the off center, but I find it difficult to measure. The threaded end measures 0.433 and half of that (mid point) would be 0.2165, so the offset would be that plus some. Does all of this kind of jive with what you were thinking? Last dumb question, when you mentioned taking .0125 off the stud body you were referencing the mid section of the stud correct? Thanks much for the assist.

 

[rockfla]

Yes, IF your stud will pretty much thread into the block before it starts hitting the head (once the head is on) then I would turn the "center" section of the stud down.It doesn't look THAT far off....You can measure from each side of your string to the edge of the stud (IF you have calipers) THEN measure the diameter of the string, divide that by two and then add that to each of the measurements you got from each side of the string and the difference between those two numbers should give you a "basic" idea of how much you are OFF. THEN divide that by 2 and that will give you a good starting point "Idea" of how much to take off the diameter of the stud and how much to open the hole in the head. It's NOT true machinist accuracy BUT it will get you close. THEORETICALLY, once done, you "SHOULD" be able to install your head, then leak lock and install your cut down stud. I'd wait 24hr to let your leak lock set, then torque your nut to the stud


BY they way, the leak lock looks good on your other studs!!!!

 

[rockfla]

Just a reminder, when I leaklock the studs, I run a small bead around the bottom two to three threads, then I run a small bead up the length of the thread of the stud about two threads shy of the end. That seem to leave a nice tight little bead showing at the base of the stud and block. AND a good visual reminder that ALL of the studs are sealed properly

 

[Shoebox]

Yes, IF your stud will pretty much thread into the block before it starts hitting the head (once the head is on) then I would turn the "center" section of the stud down.It doesn't look THAT far off....You can measure from each side of your string to the edge of the stud (IF you have calipers) THEN measure the diameter of the string, divide that by two and then add that to each of the measurements you got from each side of the string and the difference between those two numbers should give you a "basic" idea of how much you are OFF. THEN divide that by 2 and that will give you a good starting point "Idea" of how much to take off the diameter of the stud and how much to open the hole in the head. It's NOT true machinist accuracy BUT it will get you close. THEORETICALLY, once done, you "SHOULD" be able to install your head, then leak lock and install your cut down stud. I'd wait 24hr to let your leak lock set, then torque your nut to the stud


BY they way, the leak lock looks good on your other studs!!!!

Here is what I've done thus far, I measured from the side of the string to the edge of the offset side (as best I could) and got 0.25, measured the string (first time doing that) and got 0.10, divided that by 2 and added that 0.05 to the side measurement for 0.30, I then subtracted 0.216 the stud mid point, and got 0.084 and THEN divided that by 2 for 0.042. Is this even remotely meaningful information? If I didn't mention before, Thanks a ton for the assistance. Scott

 

[GB SISSON]

I remembered seeing these head studs mixed in a can with others. This one has 1/2" coarse threads and 7/16" fine. Unfortunately your insert was most likely installed crooked, but depending on other factors it could be used. The ones I have are 2 1/4" long overall. If it would work I could mail it tomorrow. Just thought I'd introduce this thing into the ongoing thread.

 

[Shoebox]

I remembered seeing these head studs mixed in a can with others. This one has 1/2" coarse threads and 7/16" fine. Unfortunately your insert was most likely installed crooked, but depending on other factors it could be used. The ones I have are 2 1/4" long overall. If it would work I could mail it tomorrow. Just thought I'd introduce this thing into the ongoing thread.

GB, thank you for your kind offer, this stud needs to be 3 1/2" long. I followed the posts of your 276 build,...great reading!


Scott

 

[GB SISSON]

Thanks, I was pretty sure this one was too short, but there are some really good suggestions here and I'm sure one will work fine.

 

[rockfla]

Here is what I've done thus far, I measured from the side of the string to the edge of the offset side (as best I could) and got 0.25, measured the string (first time doing that) and got 0.10, divided that by 2 and added that 0.05 to the side measurement for 0.30, I then subtracted 0.216 the stud mid point, and got 0.084 and THEN divided that by 2 for 0.042. Is this even remotely meaningful information? If I didn't mention before, Thanks a ton for the assistance. Scott

Sounds about fair....SO have your machinist take about .021 off the body of the stud and about .021 more off the hole in the head and that "should" have you where you need to be....Not far off from my .050 (.025 each side) I measured from the computer screen!!!! SO that's about 3/64ths in total that you are adjusting

 

[glennpm]

Sounds about fair....SO have your machinist take about .021 off the body of the stud and about .021 more off the hole in the head and that "should" have you where you need to be....Not far off from my .050 (.025 each side) I measured from the computer screen!!!! SO that's about 3/64ths in total that you are adjusting

That would work Richard but I'd still grind a beveled washer for under the top nut.


I'm still a fan for bending the stud though even with heat. Put nuts on the bottom and tighten in a vice. Add nuts for the whole top threaded portion.
Using a small adjustable, length and angle adjustable, machinist square, hammer the stud over until you measure 0.042 gap at the top. If it's not moving, heat the threaded part until it's just starting to color, turning blood red, tap lightly and then check the gap. Don't quench the bolt, just let it air cool! The vice and nuts provide a heat sink and protect the heat treat of the threads. You could use Mapp gas for this.


Glenn

 

[Shoebox]

Sounds about fair....SO have your machinist take about .021 off the body of the stud and about .021 more off the hole in the head and that "should" have you where you need to be....Not far off from my .050 (.025 each side) I measured from the computer screen!!!! SO that's about 3/64ths in total that you are adjusting

Yes, amazing what you did just off the screen. Yesterday we speculated that I'd need to open the stud hole in the head by .0125. The hole is 0.45 or about 29/64, .0125 is 1/8" or 8/64, so it appeared I'd need a 37/64 bit to drill the head, and I located such a bit. At this point I'm lost, based on the measurements I provided are we taking more off stud and larger on the hole with the .021? Again I apologize, not in my comfort zone.

 

[rockfla]

Scott


Too bad you are so far away, I have a mill and a lathe, we could knock that out in about 1/2 hour OR my machinist friend would be happy to do such a easy job for you. Another reason why I suggest a "machinist" as he "might" have an "adjustable" reamer that he can use to do the head with!!! Quick and easy peasy!! Turning the stud would be one pass in his lathe once he gets it chucked and trued!!!!
I am NOT a fan of the "bending" the stud....especially heating and bending as you can change the hardening of the stud with heat.....ALSO the probability of getting the stud straight to the face of the head is "slim" IMO....Again, just my opinion....splitting 3/64 between the two pieces makes the most sense AND least obtrusive amounts to remove!!!!

 

[Scott52]

I might be missing something but it seems the offending stud doesn't allow the head to fit on because even if the stud angle to block is slightly off, the father the head is away from the stud at the block, the more the stud will interfere with the head hole. Couldn't the stud be installed after the head is flat to the block and maybe a copper washer or copper/ steel combination be used to account for the slight angle. Even before that measure the angle of stud to block just to see how far off 90 deg it is. This might have been discussed, but I read the thread yesterday and didn't reread the whole thread today.

 

[itslow]

It's unfortunate your short block is fully assembled.

I'd find someone with a mag drill, drill out the offending hole, and then re-tap it to the next size larger (and use that step stud) or put in a new insert. You wouldn't have to disassemble the block, but you would need to tape things up and be diligent about containing chips.

...heat the threaded part until it's just starting to color, turning blood red, tap lightly and then check the gap. Don't quench the bolt, just let it air cool!...

Heating the bolt until its red is going to temper the fastener and cause it to become more ductile. That could result in it stretching (more than intended) when tightened and allow the head to lift.

Since this bolt is one that's between two cylinders, I wouldn't heat it up. If it was the one directly above it, eh, not quite as problematic (but I still wouldn't do it).