Fordomatic transmission fluid type A or F?

[KULTULZ]

Let me go further as there is a lot of confusion as to fluid type usage-

FOMOCO came out with TYPE F in the 1968 model run as they changed friction material used in clutches and bands to asbestos based. In the late seventies, there was a big push for the industry to get away from asbestos (brake lining materials mainly). FORD complied and went to using organic materials in their trans clutches/bands which was not compatible with TYPE F fluid. They went with their version of DEXRON (MERCON).

As the TYPE F call-out trans were overhauled, it was usually with organic materials which called for DEXRON/MERCON (DEXRON being GM licensed, MERCON being FORD licensed).

In short, one has to know if the trans has been rebuilt during it's service life and what type of friction materials were used. Rule of thumb again, TYPE F can be used in a pre-TYPE F trans with no damage but if you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F trans, you are going to have trouble.

B & M Trick-Shift is a TYPE F product. TYPE F (to the best of my knowledge- and it is limited) will not damage a TYPE A to D transmission (trans fluid progression before F).

I believe also that GM's propitiatory rights to DEXRON III has expired and they went to DEXRON VI which is a full synthetic. The same story with FORD as MERCON V is a full synthetic and is backwards compatible (EXCEPT TYPE F trans). When you buy a bottle of DEXRON III, the refiner is not held to the original formula now so you have to be careful.

I hope I explained this clearly but ask if any question or you have another theory. This is what I have found over the years.

 

[jplutz]

Greetings, I have a 1952 Ford Mainline fordomatic. I have no knowledge of this cars history. The road crud on the case was so thick that I could not see the speedometer cable fitting. I had to chip away the crud to clear it. However the pan is leaking from all the bolt heads. My data plate says this is a Small Case trans.
I just purchased a small case gasket and a screen to bring to a local shop to get it fixed, and I need to supply the fluid. I do not have the means to have this trans rebuilt/refurbished.
The current fluid is clear pink/red. And, the manuals specify Type A. Can I safely add Dexron II or some other current ATF to this trans without damaging the internal parts? JP

 

[GLAmes]

Greetings, I have a 1952 Ford Mainline fordomatic. I have no knowledge of this cars history. The road crud on the case was so thick that I could not see the speedometer cable fitting. I had to chip away the crud to clear it. However the pan is leaking from all the bolt heads. My data plate says this is a Small Case trans.
I just purchased a small case gasket and a screen to bring to a local shop to get it fixed, and I need to supply the fluid. I do not have the means to have this trans rebuilt/refurbished.
The current fluid is clear pink/red. And, the manuals specify Type A. Can I safely add Dexron II or some other current ATF to this trans without damaging the internal parts? JP

Type A is still available. Depending on who you talk to type A was replaced by every type that is out there. I stuck with type A after getting my transmission rebuilt.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...d-automatic-transmission-fluid-1-quart/pgd0/a

 

[jplutz]

Thank you. We just got an O'Reilly store nearby. That's what I need. JP

 

[KULTULZ]

Firstly, TYPE A TRANS FLUID was discontinued in 1959. What you see now may be or is most not likely the original blend. I understand the current formulation is popular for off-road dirt bike trans usage.

Have you determined the leakage is from the pan fasteners? It might be a good idea to torque them to spec and see if that slows the leakage.

Any intro of fresh fluid (except top-off) may start an expensive chain of events.

 

[GLAmes]

Firstly, TYPE A TRANS FLUID was discontinued in 1959. What you see now may be or is most not likely the original blend.

That's a given since the original Type A used whale oil. Beside water, what fluid in our antiques is the original blend that was used decades ago? It's the properties that for the most part remain the same.

 

[KULTULZ]

That's a given since the original Type A used whale oil. Beside water, what fluid in our antiques is the original blend that was used decades ago? It's the properties that for the most part remain the same.

Here we go with the whale oil again ...

 

[1930artdeco]

So I had my Ford rebuilt and the rebuilder said to use type F. If I have to change that is fine since I have about 10 min. Total run time on the rebuild. She is going into the shop for other things hopefully later this year.

Mike

 

[rotorwrench]

We go round and round on this at least twice a year. Ford developed type F in the late 60s for positive clutch pack engagement. This isn't necessarily needed if the transmission has bonded friction plates but it helps to get a better bite than the GM type fluids. The old Ford-Os and Merc-O-Matics that have the bronze type friction plates can benefit from using type F since any slippage on those will soon eat the plates up. Any fluid is better than no fluid but I would use the type F if I had any transmission with those old bronze plates.

Type A is long gone due to the use of whale oil in the original formula. Dexron II and III are even getting hard to find these days.

 

[Gene F]

Type A today is also used as a formula they continue to manufacture for industrial applications. Pumps, fluid drive couplings, etc.

 

[jplutz]

Greetings, O'Reilly has the following: Pure Guard Automatic Transmission Fluid - Type A in quarts. Is this something that is a modern Type A mix, or is it something else?
Again,I don't have the means to pay for a rebuild or a replacement. I just need to get a leak fixed and replace the fluid that is lost. I can't do that in my driveway. JP Lutz

 

[KULTULZ]

Type A is long gone due to the use of whale oil in the original formula. Dexron II and III are even getting hard to find these days.

There is no 'going-around'.

You cannot properly lubricate a car with seventy-year old tech.

FLUIDS have progressed for reason(s). They are beneficial in retro-use.

WHALE OIL was a low cost additive for a fluid. It was found insufficient in the early seventies (along with it's source) due to advances in TRANS TECH.

The same as refiners using lead in gasoline. It was cheaper for the refiners but not for the environment.

THERE IS NO MODERN TYPE A 'MIX'.

 

[KULTULZ]

Again,I don't have the means to pay for a rebuild or a replacement. I just need to get a leak fixed and replace the fluid that is lost. I can't do that in my driveway. JP Lutz

There is no exact and/or correct answer.

You have no idea of it's service history. There is no SPEC SHEET on the fluid so there is no idea of any detergent/dispersant packages.

If the ATF contains a strong detergent(s), it may cause varnish removal and affect the clutch materials leading to failure.

You have a 50/50 chance with new fluid. If the pan is full of sediment/shavings when dropped, it is a sure indication of future failure.

 

[rotorwrench]

General motors learned a lot about transmission fluids during the war with the twin Cadillac V8s turning though their Hydramatic transmission on the Stewart M5 and Chaffee M24 light tanks. They used several fluids during development including motor oil that eventually came up with GM type 1 fluid. After the war type 1 was further developed into type A in 1949. These were very basic fluids that provided both lubricating and hydraulic fluid functions. There were likely additives to prevent foaming and the whale oil to both lubricate and provide corrosion resistance. The stuff had to be changed fairly regularly by todays standards since it broke down over time much like motor oil due to the heat generated. All of the further development came in the mid to late 60s to catch up with the modern friction plate components and to take the heat. They wanted a fluid that didn't have to be changed at a time where 100K miles was considered to be the end of life for the average automobile. With modern cars lasting well over 100K, it's a given that no ATF is a forever fluid. Even the synthetics break down over time but they do last a long time as long as the seals are designed to hold the stuff in.

 

[paul2748]

I would go with the recommendation of the rebuilder.. The materials used inside s/b compatible if he recommended it. If you have a problem with the rebuild and use a different fluid he may not stand behind it.

So I had my Ford rebuilt and the rebuilder said to use type F. If I have to change that is fine since I have about 10 min. Total run time on the rebuild. She is going into the shop for other things hopefully later this year.

Mike