Stipe Machine/Specialty Motor Cams

[JayJay]

As long as we’re continuing this thread - a point was made that in the age of CNC machining that old school manual lathes and mills are obsolete. I disagree: if you don’t develop the fundamental skills of tool speed, feed rate and the like a person will never rise from the level of parts-inserting robot to truly being a machine operator. Same thing with welding, you need to understand the principles of weld prep, weld puddle and the like to properly operate a robotic welder.

Automated machines are good, but improperly operated a crash is a big deal.

 

[johnneilson]

As long as we’re continuing this thread - a point was made that in the age of CNC machining that old school manual lathes and mills are obsolete. I disagree: if you don’t develop the fundamental skills of tool speed, feed rate and the like a person will never rise from the level of parts-inserting robot to truly being a machine operator. Same thing with welding, you need to understand the principles of weld prep, weld puddle and the like to properly operate a robotic welder.

Automated machines are good, but improperly operated a crash is a big deal.

Agree completely.
My Sons High School Robotics team is proof of this.
We work on basics which includes the proper techniques for measurement, material removal and interpretation of prints.
When I started on the team, the college "mentors" who had no real experience could not produce prints with meaningful dimensioning.
Now, the team members can produce prints for production with tolerances and actually make all the parts.

John

 

[Hitman]

As long as we’re continuing this thread - a point was made that in the age of CNC machining that old school manual lathes and mills are obsolete. I disagree: if you don’t develop the fundamental skills of tool speed, feed rate and the like a person will never rise from the level of parts-inserting robot to truly being a machine operator. Same thing with welding, you need to understand the principles of weld prep, weld puddle and the like to properly operate a robotic welder.

Automated machines are good, but improperly operated a crash is a big deal.

The fundamentals are taught before they ever touch a CNC machine, or program. The operators need to do quality assurance checks every so many widgets. Ford, Boeing, and their suppliers hire people that program and operate these machines, they don't have time to let someone manually operate a mill on the assembly line. Keep in mind most parts are designed electronically now, and are sent directly to the CNC machine for upload and operation.

Same with welding, but old school welding that addresses prep, puddling and other things are taught at community colleges, but most is taught at the union training centers these days. The boilermakers need different welders than the teamsters.

 

[Hitman]

Lots & lots of misinformation in this based on my first-hand knowledge. My son begins this Fall as an instructor for a local state community college where he & I have been advisors for. Most people do not realize that most colleges receive the vast part of their funding from grants. They really do not have the funding to quickly change as suggested. Changing of a curriculum requires funding from grants, and then generally requires a year or two for a curriculum to be implemented. All totaled, it can be 3-5 years for change to be implemented.

Several other misconceptions from above in the high school level. More often than not, because the high school vocational class and the college-level classes were not at capacity, the two were merged. This stems from the counselors and the parents pushing college participation for the students (-and not vocational trades). One other issue is the pass/fail ratio. The classes on both levels must be presented to the students where they academically pass. The instructor and the schools funding is largely based on this. Most students today are much better at academics than they are at lab work. Again, they lack brain-to-hand coordination and problem solving skills. So if 75% of the grade comes from a lab project, what I have seen and heard from the instructors is the kids fail. Way more than meets the eye on why the local High School curriculums were dropped.

I disagree with the "lots and lots of misinformation" statement. I work in university admin, doing grants, workforce development and a lot of other things, I know the space well. Workforce development starts at the kindergarten level, that's how we view it, and believe it or not, workforce development is not college degrees. Most workforce development is technical school, community college level training and certificates. We certainly offer four year degrees, but most employers that hire a newly graduated engineer for example, want an engineer that knows how to operate the machines on the factory floor, not an office engineer.

Most programs related to workforce development do change their curriculums within months, if we wait years to get it done, we've lost the employer opportunity. We are considered often for multi-billion dollar corporate expansions, they want their local workforce being trained in their specialty while the building is under construction so they're ready to go when the building is opened. We have buildings that tens of thousands of square feet that are "modular", ready to adapt to an employer that needs 100 employees trained in operating the newest CNC machines for the next six months, and then have that same space converted to simulate a robotics based factory floor for the following six months. The curriculum adapts right along with it.

Grant funding in education for the most part is for research and other programatic elements, not curriculum development. I have three grants right now, the smallest ask is $65m, the largest ask is $1.1b. None of them will create a college degree or increase enrollment in our local university, but they do have large workforce components to support employer needs into the future.

What you reference in high schools is somewhat true, but not as it relates to vocational programs. High school districts simply can't afford to invest in CNC machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, the software license to run them, only to have four or five students interested in them. That shifted to more regional community colleges that can pull from all of the regional high schools to create a student interest of maybe a dozen students that want to pursue that every year.

That's quite the divergence.

 

[Oldbluoval]

This thread kinda reminds me of the old adage …

I hate it when people keep talking when I’m trying to interrupt!

 

[California Travieso]

Before this thread goes any further, can we clarify that what is being discussed is Artificial INTELLIGENCE rather than “Artificial Information.”

Artificial Information sound like something created by politicians.

David Serrano

 

[Synchro909]

Before this thread goes any further, can we clarify that what is being discussed is Artificial INTELLIGENCE rather than “Artificial Information.”

Artificial Information sound like something created by politicians.

David Serrano

So far, I've stayed out of this but IMO, you are spot on. Looking for an honest politician is like looking for a virgin prostitute.

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I disagree with the "lots and lots of misinformation" statement. I work in university admin, doing grants, workforce development and a lot of other things, I know the space well. Workforce development starts at the kindergarten level, that's how we view it, and believe it or not, workforce development is not college degrees. Most workforce development is technical school, community college level training and certificates. We certainly offer four year degrees, but most employers that hire a newly graduated engineer for example, want an engineer that knows how to operate the machines on the factory floor, not an office engineer.

Most programs related to workforce development do change their curriculums within months, if we wait years to get it done, we've lost the employer opportunity. We are considered often for multi-billion dollar corporate expansions, they want their local workforce being trained in their specialty while the building is under construction so they're ready to go when the building is opened. We have buildings that tens of thousands of square feet that are "modular", ready to adapt to an employer that needs 100 employees trained in operating the newest CNC machines for the next six months, and then have that same space converted to simulate a robotics based factory floor for the following six months. The curriculum adapts right along with it.

Grant funding in education for the most part is for research and other programatic elements, not curriculum development. I have three grants right now, the smallest ask is $65m, the largest ask is $1.1b. None of them will create a college degree or increase enrollment in our local university, but they do have large workforce components to support employer needs into the future.

What you reference in high schools is somewhat true, but not as it relates to vocational programs. High school districts simply can't afford to invest in CNC machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, the software license to run them, only to have four or five students interested in them. That shifted to more regional community colleges that can pull from all of the regional high schools to create a student interest of maybe a dozen students that want to pursue that every year.

That's quite the divergence.

To a certain extent, we are saying the same thing however we also need to agree to disagree as I/we find it MUCH different than what your educational system does.

 

[Hitman]

To a certain extent, we are saying the same thing however we also need to agree to disagree as I/we find it MUCH different than what your educational system does.

It’s rather bold to claim I’m spreading lots and lots of misinformation, and now we’re saying the same thing. I was not spreading misinformation. Sure my comments don’t represent every scenario throughout the country, but they were hardly incorrect.

 

[updraught]

https://web.archive.org/web/20221002100242/https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/stipecamshaftspecs.htm

 

[ModelA29]

....... if you don’t develop the fundamental skills of tool speed, feed rate and the like a person will never rise from the level of parts-inserting robot to truly being a machine operator. .....

Had this discussion just last night. We were talking about being unable to hire real machinists in the mid 80s. Everyone claiming to be a machinist turned out to be nothing but an automated machine operator. None could make a setup or twist a handle most couldn't even read a print.

 

[alexiskai]

unable to hire real machinists in the mid 80s

I found an article lamenting the decline of shop class from 1986, and it was described as a longstanding problem even then. The erosion of this particular skilled labor has been going on for a long time, but the impact of it is delayed. That's sort of what Brent was saying – you got guys who grew up in the '40s and '50s, got their machinist training in the '60s and '70s, ran machine shops for the next four or five decades, and then started to retire or pass away in the 2000s, and no one replaced them.

 

[GPierce]

Going back even farther, the machinists I knew in the 50’s got their training in WWII. The Navy in WWII had 8 internal combustion repair ships which were basically floating machine shops. Even submarines had a lathe on them.
My dad spent much of WWII teaching in several different machinist training programs run by the War Department.
In the 70’s and 80’s these folk had retired. To get machinists for our plant maintenance we had to set up our own apprenticeship program with the State and Local state technological school. That was very successful. We ended up with some very talented individuals.

 

[Dodge]

I almost hate to bring this up again, but does anyone know what Bill Stipe had to say
as the Speedster Reunion about camshaft production?
Its been another 3 months since I started this thread and still radio silent at Stipes.

As far as good help goes, we had two local Driving Schools (Race Cars) that had a mechanics school as well as a driving school. We used to get good talent from those
schools for over 30 yrs. The instructors would give us the heads up on who to hire and who not to.
We would then teach them how to run all the machinery we had. Most of the really good
ones would stay for 5 yrs. or so then go out on their own opening up their own
businesses. Some went on to running very successful race teams winning at Daytona,
Lemans and more went onto Indy teams.

The driving School was sold and the new owners decided not to have a school anymore
its made it very difficult to find good help.

We have been in discussions with the local Junior College about starting up a Racing
Mechanics School in conjunction with their Auto Mechanics and Body Shop program.

The School also has a Machine Shop and Welding program.

Maybe we can keep this rolling........

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

We have been in discussions with the local Junior College about starting up a Racing Mechanics School in conjunction with their Auto Mechanics and Body Shop program.

The School also has a Machine Shop and Welding program.

Maybe we can keep this rolling........

Hey good morning Dodge. I need to put you in touch with my son who basically grew-up in my resto shop, and has learned to use all of our machines, -including machine shop equipment. In 2014 my son graduated from a local college with an AAS in Industrial Arts with a concentration in Motorsports. Since that time he has been building dirt late models and open-wheel modifieds with his company called Terror Race cars. A year or so ago, one of his instructors became ill and they asked my son to assist substitute teaching while he was still working at my shop. Recently the college has hired him full time. FWIW, for several years I have been on the advisory board of that school because they have an Autobody program. My suggestion is you need to speak with Blake on curriculums as they already have in place what you are proposing, ...AND you need to work with local businesses to meet with the Dean to explain what these company needs are. What I have learned is, that colleges are all about completers, and job placement after graduation. PM or text me if you want to chat with Blake on this.

I am including a few pix from their program including a recent visit they had to Stewart-Haas that Blake had an inside connection with. The technology that was inside that facility was mind boggling, and the kids were blown away. The kids (-and likely instructors) saw what an integral part that cross-training in Machining, Cad Design, Auto Mechanics, and even Autobody play in Motorsports program. The Sim Labs look like fun & games however they are very helpful in student training learning how tuning and changes affect areas of a race car. Blake built his own automated tire machine and took it to the school for labs to give first-hand training on grooving & siping tires. I will leave you with this. The college has purchased virtual training computers for use in all areas of the program. Where this is mind-boggling is the college's Cad Dept. can draw a machine or widget, and it can be sent to the company manufacturing these trainers, and they can integrate that widget onto their software so students will get realistic training on how to repair that item. Here is the unit's that Blake is teaching with; https://zspace.com/edu/info/virtual-automotive-expert (Be sure and watch the videos and tell me this isn't crazy!! )


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