40 Pickup 4" Drop

[kirkf]

I'm working on my '40 pickup front suspension

I have installed:

Magnum 4" drop axle
Posie 2040 Reverse Eye Spring
2050 Front Shock Kit
4111K Super Spindle Kit, Deep drop steering arms
1073 Tie Rod
1074 Drag Link
The wishbones are not split.
The steering box is original ford.

I'm using a 78-3590 pitman arm, bent at the end to allow the pitman arm to draglink nut to clear the tie rod.

My problem is that at full left turn, both the drag link and tie rod are binding up against the wishbone.

All i can think is that the steering arms from posie just aren't quite deep enough to provide the necessary clearance. They aren't super bell deep drop.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has had these issues?
If not which deep drop steering arms did you use?
What pitman is typically used? Did it need to be altered?


Picture #1: 78-3590 pitman arm, unmodified conflicting with tie rod

Picture #2,3: 78-3590 pitman arm, with eye bent down to provide clearance to tie rod (Came that way with a steering box i bought)

Picture #4,5,6: Shows drag link and tie rod contact with wishbone as steering is turned hard left.


Thanx,

Kirk

 

[Krylon32]

I have basically the same setup on my 40 coupe but my bones are split. My steering arms are from Roadster Supply and I have no contact problems with the tie rod and drag link. There are subtle differences in the drop in the arms from company to company. I do also have a 525 box mounted on the P&J bolt in mount with the P&J steering arm. The front change was done first and I drove th car then added the 525 box later.

 

[19Fordy]

This might help:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=tell+...=edge..69i57j0l8.7908j0j4&FORM=ANAB01&PC=HCTS

When I installed a Magnum 4 in dropped axle in my 40 Ford in 2001, I used the matching Magnum dropped steering arms. Has unsplit wishbones and stock transmission. The Magnum axle is 3/4 in. narrower than stock. Used original Ford steering box. Also used Posie #2040 39 in. reverse eye spring and Posie #2056 2 in. wide spring shackles. I had to shorten the the tie rod about 1 in. and make the drag link about 1 in. longer. Used the 1960's aftermarket tube shock kit shown below. Here's a bunch of photos. Car has 15 in tires. Here's a good thread: You might want to contact the fellow with the 40 pickup in the thread below.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/lower-the-40-ford.777719/page-3#post-10707971 Hope this helps.

 

[kirkf]

Thank you for all the pictures!
Interesting that you managed to maintain the front sway bar in your setup, and your pitman arm, whichever one it is, does not interfere with your tie rod with steering at center.
I wonder which pitman arm that is.

I'm starting to think, i just need to try another manufacturers deep drop steering arms.
Unfortunately as the years go by, the deep drop arms change. I've noticed in pictures that even the super bell arms do not look that same now as earlier ones.

Kirk

 

[Mart]

Re the drag link: You could try using a solid type bar, it might be smaller diameter than the tubular one you have. You might bend and reshape the pitman arm to lower it a bit more at the steering box end.

Re the tie rod. You can get dropped tie rod ends that might help.

But in reality you might need deeper drop arms.

If the ones you have are forged you might be able to heat and bend, but to be honest, I'd have no qualms about doing that with early ford arms but would be hesitant with any aftermarket piece.

Mart.

 

[Krylon32]

Go to the Roadster Supply website and check the deep drop steering arms. With each part he has a drawing showing the dimensions of the drop. You might be able to compare them to yours?

 

[TJ]

I've installed a lot of dropped axles and have always used the deep dropped steering arms from Chassis Engineering. I've installed the axles with the CE arms in stock cars and modified cars and never had a problem.

 

[19Fordy]

kirkf: I used the stock 1940 Ford car steering arm as shown in earlier photos. I was also able to use the stock 1940 Ford stabilizer bar /"sway bar". Let me know and i will try to measure the "drop" built into the dropped steering arms. They came with the Magnum 4 in.dropped axle. Give Magnum a call and see what they say.
Here's a good thread on Magnum axles and "dropping".
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/magnum-axles.1044899/

Here's a "deep drop" steering arm worth looking at
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PAJ-1109/applications/year/1940

This thread says you should use magnum dropped steering arms.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...r the,and even those are a crap shoot anymore.

Kirk: BE SURE TO READ THIS:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/deepest-dropped-steering-arms.1115932/

 

[restoman]

I think you might feel more at home over on the HAMB

 

[kirkf]

My steering arms provide a 2.875" drop. Which is not enough to clear the wishbones.

-On the roadster supply site, their deep drop steering arms provide a 4.125" drop. However they have no steering arms available of any type. All are out of stock. Oddly they list a steering arm for a 5" drop axle with a drop of 2.875"

-Magnum Suspension appears to no loner exist. Their website is gone, and their phones are disconnected. There was an ad from them as recently as 2019 in a magazine which listed both, so I'm assuming this is recent.

-Chassis Engineering does not appear to offer steering arms anymore.

-TCI does not appear to offer steering arms anymore.

-Pete & Jake still lists the Super Bell deep drop steering arm, but the picture does not match the look of original super bell deep drop arms. I have a sneaky suspicion that Posies sourced my steering arms from Pete & Jake, and they are the same arms I have now.

This is frustrating because based on every thread I can find, this was never a problem in the past.


Kirk

 

[rich b]

'40 we worked on had a front end with the same Magnum axle and Posies spring on it along with CE dropped arms. The tie rod & drag link cleared OK.

Pete & Jakes list the old CE dropped arms on their website:

https://www.peteandjakes.com/parts/part-1108d-bolt-through-deep-drop-steering-arms-1935-48-pair/

Or you could always heat and bend the ones you have; they are supposed to be forged.

 

[kirkf]

I think you might feel more at home over on the HAMB

I think if you were to take a poll of people on the ford barn with modified vs stock axles you would be quite surprised.

Kirk

 

[kirkf]

'40 we worked on had a front end with the same Magnum axle and Posies spring on it along with CE dropped arms. The tie rod & drag link cleared OK..

Offhand do you remember if the steering radius was affected? I'm trying to picture in my head if the 'through bolt' head will hit the axle.

(I attached a picture of a bolt sitting on my steering arm to explain what I mean)

Thanx for locating that steering arm at pete an jakes by the way, I did not see it when I was looking through the catalog.

Kirk

 

[Newc]

A lot of fellows use the '35/36 wishbone/axle in the '37 up Fords because the the perch locations are closer [narrower] than the '37 later. More room for the drop/steering arms. Interesting about the aftermarket companies [parts] disappearing. ! Newc

 

[petehoovie]

(I attached a picture of a bolt sitting on my steering arm to explain what I mean) Kirk

 

[Krylon32]

Kirkf: Those Roadster Supply dropped steering arms listed for a 5 inch axle are if your using Hairpins or a 4 bar.

 

[rich b]

Offhand do you remember if the steering radius was affected? I'm trying to picture in my head if the 'through bolt' head will hit the axle.

(I attached a picture of a bolt sitting on my steering arm to explain what I mean)

Thanx for locating that steering arm at pete an jakes by the way, I did not see it when I was looking through the catalog.

Kirk

The CE arms with the nuts on the spindle side easily cleared the Magnum axle.

(The rough cut on the original arm was someone else's "work")

 

[petehoovie]

The CE arms with the nuts on the spindle side easily cleared the Magnum axle.

(The rough cut on the original arm was someone else's "work")

 

[TJ]

Offhand do you remember if the steering radius was affected? I'm trying to picture in my head if the 'through bolt' head will hit the axle.

(I attached a picture of a bolt sitting on my steering arm to explain what I mean)

Thanx for locating that steering arm at pete an jakes by the way, I did not see it when I was looking through the catalog.

Kirk

On the through bolt on the CE arms I used a grade 8 button head allen bolt. The allen head goes through the arm and then through the spindle. Depending on the axle you use, you can grind a little off the axle to get full turning radius.

 

[restoman]

The teenage low front end is better off on the HAMB.