'36 221 - rebuildable??

[sjaakslinger]

I don't 'speak-mm', so I converted from 3/8 and came up with something a little heavier that what Mart posted. So, as post 58 suggests, I'd go with the two. But, from my perspective, being old and lazy, I'd BUY a mount... previously discussed and posted here on the barn. (obviously, just opinion)

Being in The Netherlands makes getting a mount a bit difficult, they're not readily available. We came up with design like in the pics. We found a tube just thick enough to snugly fit in the stand. We used the exhaust manifold as a template and makes 2 plates that go together. To be sure.

We'll weld some additional triangle shaped support brackets between the tube and the plate.


Any other suggestions are welcome.

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[GB SISSON]

Being in The Netherlands makes getting a mount a bit difficult, they're not readily available. We came up with design like in the pics. We found a tube just thick enough to snugly fit in the stand. We used the exhaust manifold as a template and makes 2 plates that go together. To be sure.

We'll weld some additional triangle shaped support brackets between the tube and the plate.


Any other suggestions are welcome.

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You are a quick study. That looks exactly right and you'll have that engine mounted in no time, and mounted the safe and correct way! Before long there WILL be a flathead guy in your neighborhood. You.

 

[sjaakslinger]

Thought I'd post some of the small progress we made. We decided to work on the studs and valves first before mounting the engine in a stand. Much steadier like this. It does mean we haven't pulled the pan yet to verify if it is indeed an LB block, but it's surprise me if it isn't.

Since we'll install new valves, springs, etc., I handled them the hard way. The guides were so stuck that I couldn't get the horseshoe clips out, even if they moved. So I cut the springs, wriggled the lower clip out. Then removed the spring remains, lifted the valve and cut the valve stem just below the valve. Then I could hammer down the valve guide with a small tube.

And I got most of the studs out, only 4 to go. The top ones seem the hardest. Took a lot of heating with an induction heater tool, Mystery oil, etc. And the 'offset type' stud remover tool. It's a bit hard for me to tell how much force I can apply with my torque wrench. Don't want to break a stud.... Easy does it I guess.

There does seem to be a crack between a stud hole and a water hole.[emoji19] We'll have the block magnafluxed at some point. Any thought on those kind of cracks?

To be continued.

Dennis

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[Mart]

Those cracks are very common and not normally judged to be a problem. People joke that those cracks have Ford part numbers.

 

[leon bee]

That is looking way better already and I'm hoping it all goes well.

 

[sjaakslinger]

Those cracks are very common and not normally judged to be a problem. People joke that those cracks have Ford part numbers.

That's somewhat comforting. [emoji16]

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[sjaakslinger]

That is looking way better already and I'm hoping it all goes well.

Thanks. Yeah, so far it's not hopeless I guess.

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[OldGold360]

Being in The Netherlands makes getting a mount a bit difficult, they're not readily available. We came up with design like in the pics. We found a tube just thick enough to snugly fit in the stand. We used the exhaust manifold as a template and makes 2 plates that go together. To be sure.

We'll weld some additional triangle shaped support brackets between the tube and the plate.


Any other suggestions are welcome.

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That’s pretty much exactly how I made mine. Mine is 3/8” thick steel, which is probably overkill, but it’s what I had.

 

[Rodrelic]

I have been collecting bearing sets as they come up cheap for about 30 years, I can see what I have for full floating. I have 2 early motors that are not fresh so after I have saved some for that no sense in hoarding the rest.

 

[sjaakslinger]

I have been collecting bearing sets as they come up cheap for about 30 years, I can see what I have for full floating. I have 2 early motors that are not fresh so after I have saved some for that no sense in hoarding the rest.

[emoji106]

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[sjaakslinger]

Got all the studs out. In 1 piece![emoji817][emoji3060] Thanks to heating, Mystery oil, tapping, a $20,- stud remover tool and patience.

It probably helps that the engine was overhauled at some point way back in the days.

So far the decks look ok by visual inspection. I got 14 valve assemblies completely out, 2 are limited by the position of the camshaft. Those will come later.

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[sjaakslinger]

[emoji120][emoji322] It's an LB! [emoji16]

So finally we have the 221 mounted in an engine stand and were able to get 1 of the main bearing caps of. A bit expected, or at least hoped for, it turned out to have the insert bearing! I don't have any experience with these engines, but I'd say it all looks pretty decent so far. The bearings seems to be stock size. They have a 'Ford A' stamp and a 'D'. Anyone know what these stand for?

Got one piston out so far. Seems to be stock size, it measures 3.06".

The oil pump is stuck. Any suggestions how to get it out? Any other suggestions how to go from here are welcome as well. Thanks.

Dennis

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[Brian]

steel pistons!
to remove the oil pump, after undoing the one bolt that holds it into place, use a big wrench on the body of the pump to twist it for sideways, this will break the bond that has formed and allow you to then lift the pump up and out

 

[Mart]

As Brian stated, a twist can get things moving. Remove the flywheel first so you have more elbow room. A clockwise twist will assist removal if the shaft is tight due to the helix on the gears. A good pipe wrench is useful for turning the pump. Be careful and only apply moderate force. You can break the pumps.

Mart.

 

[hoss73ford]

I thought '36s were still babbitt pounders? Not many around who still do babbitt work.

 

[deuce lover]

Insert mains were introduced by Ford in '36,(mid year?).

 

[sjaakslinger]

We have most of the engine apart now. Almost time to have it thoroughly inspected and magnafluxed. We did find a small hole in 1 of the connecting rod journals. No idea if this can be fixed, our rebuilder will tell, but I'd appreciate any ideas here.

We're getting to the point (assuming the engine is rebuildable) where we have to figure out what to reuse and what to replace. Any advice is welcome here. The car is 36 Touring Sedan which most probably will stay as original as possible. No big exterior and interior upgrade, just drive it with the worn patina look. So we're thinking of keeping the engine basic, no big pimpin' here. Bit of a budget rebuild, as far as possible.

The 221 had steel dome pistons. A quick search tells me those aren't the cheapest and not widely available. Aluminum good enough?

The connecting rods....reuse if possible?

Valves are shot...will be replaced. The non-mushroom type? Our rebuilder already suggested the adjustable tappets/lifters. Pros/cons?

Water pumps, oil pump and fuel pump....(self) rebuild?

I guess the ring gear is shot (see pic)?

Thanks.

Dennis

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[sjaakslinger]

Long time since the last update. The block has been decked and is ready to be honed .040 over. The crankshaft will soon be back from the grinder. .010 under on the mains and rod journals. The camshaft was too far gone, I got a good used one at mr. Alan Mest in LA, as well as loads of other parts. Bearings, .040 pistons and rings, gears, etc. The block looks surprisingly good given the inital impression.


I have an engine head question though. We took the heads to the rebuilder. We already noticed a difference between the 2 heads, chamber shape, depth of plug holes, general shape... They measured the volume of the chambers and indeed there's a difference in volume.

I know these heads were used as replacement heads back in the days. Why use 2 different ones? The numbers are 68-6049B and 68-6050B which, acc. to the green bible, should be a matching pair.

These would have different compression given the difference in chamber volume...

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[GB SISSON]

Great to see you are still hard at it! While I cannot answer the question about your heads, I am confident that the chambers must match in volume. We are working side by side, but half a world away as I am also putting an engine together on a budget and re-using the parts that I can. Sometimes it's a bit of a gamble when installing a previously used part into a freshly machined block, but when we are smart about it we are getting an original ford part, and at no cost. I like to think we're doing a 'Kenny Rogers Rebuild'.
'And as every gearhead knows, the Secret to survivin' is knowin' what to throw away and knowin' what to keep.... And if somewhere down the highway, the gambler he breaks even, the best that he can hope for is that rust pit weren't too deep'....... You have done a great job so far and it will be a blast driving that old sled around looking kinda shabby with that little jewel under the 'bonnet'. GB

 

[sjaakslinger]

Thanks. The rebuilder doesn't want to use these pair of heads cause of the difference in compression. They're very precise with stuff like that. Seems I'll be looking for a matching head...

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