1940 Deluxe Convertible Door Alignment

Nick Bernier said:
Thanks Karl. Not happy to hear that there won't be an easy fix, but not surprised.
Glenn, thanks for the additional data point. Mine is still quite a bit narrower than the other two. I can live with the mis-alignment, but it would certainly bug me every time I see it. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Nick
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Nick, Just got home... long day.

I'll read over this entire thread tomorrow and add my .02¢.

I had recently completed a '40 convertible that was rolled. Each and every panel was damaged. That's okay in itself. However, the guy who had the car before me did a ton of work and didn't apparently own a ruler.
Once I'd stripped the body, it was MUCH worse than anything I'd ever encountered.
I'd thought I knew a lot of "tricks" before this car. I learned a ton more with this one. More than I'd ever wanted to.
 
For what it's worth I measured my '40 this morning, it is 54 3/8 across that opening. I don't think the body has ever been off of the frame. I agree that it could be a body shim issue, although I wouldn't rule out putting a screw jack between the quarters and stretching it out a smidge.
 
Automotive Stud said:
For what it's worth I measured my '40 this morning, it is 54 3/8 across that opening. I don't think the body has ever been off of the frame. I agree that it could be a body shim issue, although I wouldn't rule out putting a screw jack between the quarters and stretching it out a smidge.
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I did think about doing that but that might cause movement on the passenger side too. My thought was to lay a 2x4 over the passenger side with one end against the wall, then using a bottle jack, apply some pressure to try to move the driver B pillar out. A bit "brute force", but.......
Nick
 
Nick Bernier said:
I did think about doing that but that might cause movement on the passenger side too. My thought was to lay a 2x4 over the passenger side with one end against the wall, then using a bottle jack, apply some pressure to try to move the driver B pillar out. A bit "brute force", but.......
Nick
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Having morning coffee prior to horse stable duties. A quick NO to this idea. The B pillars are VERY rigid, and I have great fear that any attempt at pushing them will not end well.

How does the top fit to the top of the doors glass frames?
 
Nick Bernier said:
I did think about doing that but that might cause movement on the passenger side too. My thought was to lay a 2x4 over the passenger side with one end against the wall, then using a bottle jack, apply some pressure to try to move the driver B pillar out. A bit "brute force", but.......
Nick
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OR "pull" from the right side maybe?? and not "push" from the left!!! A lot less real estate to have to cover as well!!!
 
Kube said:
Having morning coffee prior to horse stable duties. A quick NO to this idea. The B pillars are VERY rigid, and I have great fear that any attempt at pushing them will not end well.

How does the top fit to the top of the doors glass frames?
Click to expand...

Agreed on the pushing and/or pulling.

I have not had the top up yet. Only had the car a few weeks. Actually going to the DMV this morning to transfer title. Carb is off to Charlie in NY to rebuild, so will have to wait for it to get back before trying to raise it.
Nick
 
Before I would attempt to move the post any I would first go underneath and loosen the bolts associated with that post and the screws that hold the wood board that runs under the front edge of the seat. Then pull it by hand to see if you get any movement. I don’t think I would try any mechanical force by pushing off the right side post.
 
Kube beat me to the reply. I can easily imagine ending up with 2 doors that didn't fit if you pushed out between the tops of the pillars. I sure hope you can remedy this without some repainting.
Did this car come out of an auction? Just wondering, like always, things look better in pictures.
 
Ken/Alabama said:
Before I would attempt to move the post any I would first go underneath and loosen the bolts associated with that post and the screws that hold the wood board that runs under the front edge of the seat. Then pull it by hand to see if you get any movement. I don’t think I would try any mechanical force by pushing off the right side post.
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I wouldn't even do this unless I knew for certain there was no putty beneath the paint. Judging by the door fit, I'm guessing there's plenty of putty...
 
The usual problem with doors fitting in a convertible is the angle of the front clip (hood, dash, and fenders). I am not familiar with the '40 ragtops, but later models, such as my '47, have an adjustment between the clip and the frame to move the angle to allow the doors to fit. Trying to bend anything can result in worsening the fit.
 
Hello Nick. Thanks for your patience with me. Life gets in the way of fun all too often. Still, life is great :)

Anyway... your car:

How are the vertical gaps of the door vs. the quarter? Is the character line of the quarter even with the character line of the door?
How is the vertical gap between the door and the A pillar?
If the gaps are even, then the issue is most likely the door itself.
If the gaps are not even, I'd suggest you shim the body as necessary to get them even prior to doing anything with the door skin sticking out from the quarter.
You will only be able to adjust the vertical gap between the door and the quarter by shimming. As the door is fastened to the A pillar, any adjustment that may be necessary there, must be done with the hinges. If the vertical gap is nice but not quite perfect, often enough a shim can be added (hidden) behind a hinge.

I would like to reiterate... do NOT attempt to push or pull the quarter panels. That ship has sailed!

Let's go at this very methodically. So, your turn... let me know about the gaps.

Keep in mind, once we (you) start the alignment process, do one thing at a time.
 
Nick, Just had an errant thought... I'd suggest you fold the top to the up-position ASAP. The canvas tends to shrink when left down for an extended period.
If the top doesn't want to go all the way up, get it close to the header and let it sit for a while. Don't force it.
Occasionally, I have found it necessary to wet the canvas and while it's sitting in the hot sun, pull the top down slowly...
Remove the hoses from the top switch and with one person on each side of the car, you may move the top assembly by hand.
 
Kube said:
Hello Nick. Thanks for your patience with me. Life gets in the way of fun all too often. Still, life is great :)

Anyway... your car:

How are the vertical gaps of the door vs. the quarter? Is the character line of the quarter even with the character line of the door?
How is the vertical gap between the door and the A pillar?
If the gaps are even, then the issue is most likely the door itself.
If the gaps are not even, I'd suggest you shim the body as necessary to get them even prior to doing anything with the door skin sticking out from the quarter.
You will only be able to adjust the vertical gap between the door and the quarter by shimming. As the door is fastened to the A pillar, any adjustment that may be necessary there, must be done with the hinges. If the vertical gap is nice but not quite perfect, often enough a shim can be added (hidden) behind a hinge.

I would like to reiterate... do NOT attempt to push or pull the quarter panels. That ship has sailed!

Let's go at this very methodically. So, your turn... let me know about the gaps.

Keep in mind, once we (you) start the alignment process, do one thing at a time.
Click to expand...

The driver door is ever so slightly higher at the top than the quarter panel (pics attached). The gap between the door and the A pillar is 1/4" at the bottom and 3/16" at the top. The gap between the door and the B pillar is 1/4" at the top and about 1/16" at the bottom. If I misunderstood any of your questions, just let me know.

I appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Nick
 

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Nick Bernier said:
The driver door is ever so slightly higher at the top than the quarter panel (pics attached). The gap between the door and the A pillar is 1/4" at the bottom and 3/16" at the top. The gap between the door and the B pillar is 1/4" at the top and about 1/16" at the bottom. If I misunderstood any of your questions, just let me know.

I appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Nick
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,
Nope, you understood completely. In fact, thanks for the photos which are very helpful.
Placing the straight edge on the door at the B pillar is also helpful to me.
That height difference should've been fixed prior to paint. I'd say way too late now.
The doors and body lines should have been all gapped perfectly and then the top of the B pillar either built up or filed down to come even with the top of the door.
Back in 1940, Ford used lead atop that B pillar to even things up with the door.
I have had to build them up and at times, and at other times file them down during my restorations.

Okay, next "step" if you so desire. If you want the character line to match between the door and quarter, now is the time to do that. This is going to be a tedious task that requires a lot of patience.
It is done by adding / subtracting body to frame shims.
You will lose hair during this process. I am amazed I still have any hair remaining.

The door gap at the bottom is way too tight, especially on a convertible body.

Oh, did you remove the male catch? There was originally a rectangular block captured behind the B pillar that the two screws were threaded in to.
All of the rubber bumpers are removed?
 
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