Toe-in adjustment

Werner

Werner

Well-known member
Guten Abend!


Who knows the thread pitch of the tie rod end heads? How many turns needed for e.g. 1/10 inch deviation?

And what is the direction of rotation on the tie rod for in front tighter? (Viewed from the left side).

Thank you many in advance.
 
Who knows ? It depends how the tie-rod was installed. To me, its trial and error. You'll figure it out quickly once you see it while twisting the rod. Of course, you make the rod longer to increase the amount of 'in' in the toe-in.
 
Guten Tag.


In the above contribution,

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259451


I was obviously wrong with my measuring method. Because now, after 6000 miles, the tyres are more worn on the inside than on the outside.

The thread pitch of the tie rod is about 1 mm per revolution. I have made the outside 1.5 mm longer. That could be about right. I no longer measured with the curtain rod method because it was too inaccurate.
 
Here is what I do. I take a block of wood and drill a hole the same size as a sharpie pen. Drill the hole on an angle so when the block wood is on the floor the pen will touch the tire. Place the Sharpie pen in the hole. Jack up a front tire just off of the floor so that it can turn. Place the block on the floor in front of the tire and hold it in place so that the tip of the pen scribes against the center of the tire and creates a center line. Spin the tire slowly to create the center line on the circumference of the tire. Do the same on the other front tire. This method removes any variance created by a slightly bent rim.
Place both front wheels on the floor and take a measurement between the center lines in the front. Place the measuring tape against the bumper braces to get a level reading. Then, go around to the back side and take a measurement between the center lines. Place the tape against the bottom of the A-Bars to get a level reading.
The front measurement needs to be 1/16 of an inch smaller than the back measurement.
I have used this method several times with excellent results...
Viel gluckness!!!
 
Dick M said:
Here is what I do. I take a block of wood and drill a hole the same size as a sharpie pen. Drill the hole on an angle so when the block wood is on the floor the pen will touch the tire. Place the Sharpie pen in the hole. Jack up a front tire just off of the floor so that it can turn. Place the block on the floor in front of the tire and hold it in place so that the tip of the pen scribes against the center of the tire and creates a center line. Spin the tire slowly to create the center line on the circumference of the tire. Do the same on the other front tire. This method removes any variance created by a slightly bent rim.
Place both front wheels on the floor and take a measurement between the center lines in the front. Place the measuring tape against the bumper braces to get a level reading. Then, go around to the back side and take a measurement between the center lines. Place the tape against the bottom of the A-Bars to get a level reading.
The front measurement needs to be 1/16 of an inch smaller than the back measurement.
I have used this method several times with excellent results...
Viel gluckness!!!
Click to expand...

I agree, but roll the car forward several feet before measuring.
 
When measuring/checking toe, always roll vehicle forward and then apply slight outward pressure to the front of the tires.

Setting should be 1/32- 1/16" in.
 
1/32 - 1/16 is almost impossible to measure accurately. Does it really have to be that accurate, considering that there are many variables that affect straight running of the car?


@ Werner: Das waeren ja nur 0,8 - 1,6 mm Vorspur. Macht das wirklich einen Unterschied? Ich würde fast den Sturz als mögliche Unsache sehen, warum deine Reifen auf der Innenseite ablaufen. Wie viele Meilen haben die denn runter seit der letzten Einstellung und waren die Reifen da neu?
 
OT. The toe in/out is not always an indication of the wandering left to right. The Model A has a much narrower wheel width than modern cars. Asphalt roads have two valleys in which modern cars have made in the road that the tires will try to travel back and forth to, the narrow width and larger diameter tires contribute to this. Not saying toe in is not important.
 
amclass said:
1/32 - 1/16 is almost impossible to measure accurately. Does it really have to be that accurate, considering that there are many variables that affect straight running of the car?
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you considering the equipment we use.
Incidentally a few years ago I checked 5 printed articles from reputable gurus..Brattons, Moller, Vallon, Valot and Andrews. Between their opinions they covered an acceptable toe in range from 1/32 inch to 7/32 inch!! [ less than 1mm to over 5mm !!] So who is right? ? Go the middle(ish)? and check your tires?
 
aermotor said:
OT. The toe in/out is not always an indication of the wandering left to right. The Model A has a much narrower wheel width than modern cars. Asphalt roads have two valleys in which modern cars have made in the road that the tires will try to travel back and forth to, the narrow width and larger diameter tires contribute to this. Not saying toe in is not important.
Click to expand...


You're right. Especially when you drive the backroads in Germany. They are shaped like the top of a white bread. You really have to hold on to the steering wheel with both hands .... :)
 
Thank you all for the detailed advice (even perfectly correct in my language!). My Firestone tyres have done 6000 miles since fitting and tie-adjustment. Pressure 2 1/2 bar.

I renewed the steering segment and the spindle together with the brass bushings and all the ball cups during the restoration. But my little green roadster never drove nice and straight, even on smooth road surfaces, always something like a little bit drunken.

I can only check the vertical camber of the wheels with my eye. As it looks, the wheels are exactly vertical, at least there is no deviation of left and right side.

By tightening the toe-in by 1.5 mm without measuring, I think the straight-line stability will improve.
 
1.5MM is 1/16" I found out that The Toe setting is really cirtical. My car had to much Toe-out and it was all over the road. I've set it to 1/8" toe In (3.0mm) And it's much better. I use a Tram Bar and Tape on the tires with a Line. Measure at the front and rotate the tires to the rear and measure the rear. Keep rotating until you get the toe you want. Then test drive.
 
Tinbasher said:
1.5MM is 1/16" I found out that The Toe setting is really cirtical. My car had to much Toe-out and it was all over the road. I've set it to 1/8" toe In (3.0mm) And it's much better. I use a Tram Bar and Tape on the tires with a Line. Measure at the front and rotate the tires to the rear and measure the rear. Keep rotating until you get the toe you want. Then test drive.
Click to expand...


Actually that's a good advice. I would recommend the same. Any toe in is better then no toe in. Since 1.5 mm is next to zero, I would try 3 mm just to see if there is any differnce. It will never drive like a modern car but with a some fine tuning you will get a result you can and have to life with. If you don't want to have the car wandering from one side to the other, you may install a steering stabilizer. Look here:

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=977724&cat=41822

Beste Grüße aus Florida mit einem Gruß in die alte Heimat ... :)
 
I set my toe-in using a similar method to earlier description. I set mine for 1/8" toe in. That's been about 6 or 7 years ago and lots of miles ago. I see no uneven wear and the car drives/handles great. I did mine for zero toe in first, on advice from someone, and it bounced from side to side, then re-did it for 1/8" and its been great every since.
 
An easy way to do a rough toe-in or toe-out check is to put one hand flat on top of the tire, move the hand back and forth(in and out) over the tire, if you feel sharp edges on the tread when pulling towards the outside, there is too much toe-in, if you feel sharp edges when pushing your hand inwards, then there is toe-out.
 
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I think using gauges to set what you think is close to correct, and then drive the car to see the difference and take it from there. I have the spring loaded one with chains at each end.

Reality is, the tires rubber could very well be 1/32" - 1/16" variation in the tires wall thickness. For myself, I take measurements from several spots on the tire at 120° intervals and then average them out.

The 91-95 year old wheels and the tire itself have to many variables to just measure once and that's all.

Regards
Bill
 
Brent in Tn. had a post about these toe plates. They clamp to the sidewalls and you measure front and back with a tape measure. They are used for race cars.

I have not used them,but they seem like a good tool to me.


John
 
I messed around with tapes and curtain rods and finally gave up and bought a Specialty Products Company Toe in Gauge #99374 ($83 on Amazon and $90 Summit Racing). This gauge makes it so easy that discussing any other method is a waste of time. Well made, easy to use scale. P.S. Put scale end of rod on drivers side tire so you can read the scale. After spending near $1000 on tires, I figured the extra cost was worth it for the tire wear protection correct toe-in provides.
 
I use a frame I welded together. It has a pointer at each end on a vertical "post" that are separated by a distance that means they each point to about the middle of the tyre. The pointers are at axle level off the ground. I put a piece of masking tape with a fine vertical pen line on it on one tyre then, using the frame, I do the same at the other pointer on the other tyre. I start by doing this at the front of the wheel. I then roll the car forward till the pieces of tape are again at axle level, only at the back of the tyre. By sliding the frame under the car and setting it so that one pointer is on one of the pen lines, I look at the at the other. It is easy to see whether I have toe in or toe out and how much. If it is not 1 - 2 mm toe in, I adjust and check. (Rolling the car forwards prior to each reading.) IMO, the pitch of the tie rod thread is of little importance. 1 mm movement of the tie rod end is doubled by the time you consider the left and right handed threads at the two ends and the fact that the steering arms are shorter than the radius of the wheel. Trial and error is fine - don't over think it.
I've worn out several sets of tyres with the toe in set this way and never had scrubbing problems other than when on one car, the axle was bent but that is a whole other thing.
 
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