KULTULZ
Well-known member
Not sure why it didn't upload...
The gas most likely lost all of it's volatility ...
SOURCE - https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/symptoms-of-stale-gas
old gas - like 10 years old
- Thread starter Stephenorf
- Start date
The gas most likely lost all of it's volatility ...
SOURCE - https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/symptoms-of-stale-gas
rotorwrench
Well-known member
On a car that's older that 10 or 20-years I would expect to have an inch or better of old varnish in the bottom of the tank. I carefully mix up Drano crystals in a small size plastic tub and funnel that mix into the tank and let it set overnight. Most of the crap will wash out the next day. I repeat that procedure till all the old fuel remnants are gone. A tank that is cleaned of the cruds can then be treated for corrosion to remove all traces. I fabricate covers to close up the fuel quantity sender and fuel inlet openings. I then find a plug for the fuel outlet fitting and keep an old section of speedometer cable around to clear that tube when need be, After a thorough drying with alcohol, the tank can be coated with fuel resistant sealer. Sealers and acidic corrosion treaments are available form several sources. I use Hirsch product on large tanks. If they tell you a gallon will work then I get two just to make sure it's clean. The larger the tank, the more material is needed.
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Stephenorf
Senior Member
Hi, thaks for the note. I'm sure its all gummed up with varnish on the inside. it also seems to have some rust in the tank under the varnish. I ended up taking the tank to a radiator shop. They guy that owns and runs the shop is a really nice older gentleman who has been in the business forever. He reconditions fuel tanks as well as repairs radiators. I had a nice chat with him when I dropped my fuel tank off on Saturday. He says it will take 3-4 days to complete the restoration/recondition of my fuel tank.
After reading all the options for cleaning out and reconditiong a tank I decided I'd let a professional handle it.
On a side note: I found a gas station near me that sells ethanol-free fuel. I plan to only use the ethanol-free stuff in all of my classic/antique cars from here on out (and my lawn equipment too for that matter).
55blacktie
BANNED
Get it while you can.
Stephenorf
Senior Member
I understand that marinas also sell the non-ethanol for boats and such. The price of similar octane fuel at marinas is usually a lot more expensive that the same octane fuel at regular road-side stations.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
You can find it in farm country, marinas and airports. A CARB was not designed to run on EIO, period. It is even harsher on small engines.
Now ethanol free gas will also draw moisture. That is why they put draincocks on the old fuel tanks back in the day.
A POSSIBLE SOURCE REFERENCE - https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp
hoss73ford
Senior Member
In cases in the past I never used the rotten gas like that to try and start the car but rather put a gallon of fresh gas in a can and get about six or so feet of neoprene fuel hose and run to the fuel pump and then try.
Of course I always found use for the rotten gas as charcoal lighter fluid, LOL.
Of course I always found use for the rotten gas as charcoal lighter fluid, LOL.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
When fuel evaporates down, it leaves hard varnish on the inside of the tank. A tar like substance forms in the bottom. What ever doesn't evaporate smells like really rancid varnish and permeates a whole garage if you spill any. Nasty stuff. It pays to drain a tank if the car is going to set up for a very long period.
55blacktie
BANNED
If modern carburetors aren't designed to run on E10 gas, why are so many carburetors still being sold? I don't believe that there are enough gas stations that sell ethanol-free gasoline for it to be practical to only use E10-free gas. I know of no station in my area that sells it, and I'm not going to look for a municipal airport/marina whenever I need to fill up. I have used Sta-Bil without issues, but I recommend draining your carburetor, regardless of the type of gas you use, if you vehicle is going to sit for months/years.
jimvette59
Well-known member
You should not have tried to start the car with that slop in it. Now you have it in every thing. Remove the fuel tank , carburetor , fuel pump and ether clean them out or replace them.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
If you took the time to research it before asking, it would be apparent. Most hobbyists have enough trouble dialing a carb in. Today's carb's are modified somewhat to be able to run it but it is not perfect. GOOGLE zinc-oxide.
A CARB has no benefit over EFI except for easy fast HP.
*****
TECH ARTICLE - https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/0812rc-aftermarket-carburetors-ethanol-fuel/
*****
E10 was blended for an EFI SYSTEM w EVAP. Simple as that. What was the last model run you saw with a carburetor system?
While EFI SYSTEM CHANGEOVER was once popular, most car owners want to keep the original older fuel systems
There is not enough profit margin for a refiner to offer both styles fuel and even then the FEDS would be all over you.
The non-ethanol gasoline's available today are for aircraft, marine and/or farm/off-road use. It is not the old gasoline.
Why would I (or anyone else) be concerned about your finding a non-ethanol gasoline? Either you want to use it or not.
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55blacktie
BANNED
KULTULZ, did you not bother to read the Aftermarket Carburetor quotation you posted? Don't you consider aftermarket carburetors "modern" carburetors? Do you think that all of these carburetors are purchased by owners of modern EFI-equipped cars? Do you think every owner of a carbureted car is using only E10-free gasoline? Do you believe that every owner of a carbureted car that runs on E10 has problems with their carburetor/fuel system as a result? You should be embarrassed, at the least.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
!!! YO ??? !!!
Here we go with the front and center crap again ...
No, I just randomly post TECH INFO without reading as my reading comprehension levels are very low ...
Not all and very few.
While I have you here, define modern carburetor for me please.
Well, no ... Where did you pull that one from?
Now that would be impractical in today's world wouldn't it?
They do, whether they realize it or not.
I'm sorry. That must have been the TACO HELL's MONTEZUMA REVENGE PLATTER I had last night ...
Try standing upwind next time ...
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Why should I feel embarrassed?
You are the one with reading difficulties.
Do you feel the forum should be changed in any way to agree with your views on automotive theory? They may be looking for a support modulator.
BTW - With the number of hits on this thread there seems to be others trying to find the answer(s) to E10. It is not only the addition of ethanol but other additives that make it less desirable for a carburetor equipped car. If you research the subject without depending on forums for information, it will become apparent why the subject of E10 is confusing.
Here are excellent write-ups of the problem from the repair industry side of the subject -
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/11/impact-of-todays-fuels-n-carbureted-engines/
https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm
And remember, if a galvanized fuel tank will rust, anything steel will rust in the system, including fuel lines. It may not show externally, but is most likely damaged inside.
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miker98038
Well-known member
Those are interesting articles, and pretty much in line with others I’ve read. I’ve been lucky, due to changes in the vehicles I’ve had all the soft lines replaced with “fuel injection alcohol rated” hoses and carbs. Just a couple unscientific thoughts come to mind.
Ted Eaton says that most premium gas he’s checked has less, some times much less, than 10% ethanol. I’ve never checked that, but I’m about to fill the gas cans for winter. I use a generator fairly often so I have power. I’m going to buy a little test bottle (they’re cheap) and buy a can of premium and see how it reads. In Washington things might be different than Texas. Understatement.
Due to compression ratios and superchargers/turbos, all but one vehicle I own runs premium. Maybe that works in my favor, if not for my wallet.
There’s a lot of “modern” carbs on the market (I’m thinking of the Summit one in particular, with the annular discharge nozzles) that seem to run better out of the box than most. Tuned for ethanol maybe ?
I remember filling the motorhome in the fall, late enough to get winter fuel with lower Reid vapor pressure. Late spring, warm temps, long pull, it would vapor lock. Summer fuel it didn’t happen after that first tank.
Ted Eaton says that most premium gas he’s checked has less, some times much less, than 10% ethanol. I’ve never checked that, but I’m about to fill the gas cans for winter. I use a generator fairly often so I have power. I’m going to buy a little test bottle (they’re cheap) and buy a can of premium and see how it reads. In Washington things might be different than Texas. Understatement.
Due to compression ratios and superchargers/turbos, all but one vehicle I own runs premium. Maybe that works in my favor, if not for my wallet.
There’s a lot of “modern” carbs on the market (I’m thinking of the Summit one in particular, with the annular discharge nozzles) that seem to run better out of the box than most. Tuned for ethanol maybe ?
I remember filling the motorhome in the fall, late enough to get winter fuel with lower Reid vapor pressure. Late spring, warm temps, long pull, it would vapor lock. Summer fuel it didn’t happen after that first tank.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
You are ahead of the game. How was it decided to go to EFI rated hoses? The hose was enhanced rubber or nylon tubing?
The testing of pump fuel ethanol fuel is important as to know exactly what is being put in your tank. Not all refiners/distributors have the same quality concerns on gasoline storage/distribution and it can be compromised at the pump.
When this first hit the market, there were many drive ability concerns and the first step taken in repair was to analyze the fuel in the tank. It was was heavy with water, it was not warranty but a customer pay.
Your OWNERS MANUAL calls for PREMIUM FUEL or its' optional use for enhanced performance?
It also needs to be pointed out that PREMIUM FUELS do not sell as fast/quickly as most modern vehicles don't need them and the fuel in the station tanks may sit and become stale from low sales volume. This is where the test kits come into play so you can determine the best place to buy as to the volume sold.
No, due more to the design of the carb. The SUMMIT CARB is an enhanced copy of the previous HOLLEY 4010 which in actuality was an enhanced copy of the F-4100 with certain H-4150 systems incorporated. It is assembled with modern ethanol resistant soft parts.
You had an ENHANCED EVAP SYSTEM and used a fuel stabilizer if the vehicle sat over the winter?
This would be used in a professional repair shop -
https://www.otctools.com/products/gasoline-quality-testing-kit
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