1947 Ford starting problems

S

Squadron

Member
So I'm new to the classic car hobby and just bought my first project car, a 1947 Ford (4-door sedan). I'm in love with how the car looks, how I feel sitting in it, everything. And I'm really excited to wrench on it.

https://i.imgur.com/Lf7tpks.jpeg

However one thing that I've consistently failed at with project vehicles in the past is electrical work and ignition systems. So I want to try to troubleshoot this current problem with some help from folks that might know better.

Symptoms

I'll get in the car, turn the key to energize the ignition (the previous owner replaced the standard key lock with a more modern-style 3-position key, which I've traced wiring from to ensure I'm putting the key in right), and then press the clutch in and hold in the start button.

Even with a fresh battery off the charger, it will take awhile for the engine to turn at all, and if it does it's lethargic and might eventually roll to life.

When I picked up the car recently, I made the previous owner start it up. It took about 20 seconds but the engine did start and rev'd up/down beautifully. No sputtering or anything, just started. Then when it was delivered we started it again to get it off the trailer.

What I've tried

Nothing drastic yet. I replaced the battery with a fresh 6V 550 CCA one, and I recharged the one that came from the PO. They both show ~6.5-7 off the charger when I put them in.

I reseated the cabling on the battery terminals

I checked a spark plug to see if it looked fouled (it doesn't)

I verified the choke is open

I gave the car time to dry out after flooding the engine once or twice trying to start

I even sprayed starter fluid into the carb and tried it, to no avail.

Anyone have any advice? Why would it be so lethargic turning over? Whould I put the car up on jacks and pull off/clean up the starter motor? Start replacing cabling itself and cleaning off contact points?
 
Squadron said:
So I'm new to the classic car hobby and just bought my first project car, a 1947 Ford (4-door sedan). I'm in love with how the car looks, how I feel sitting in it, everything. And I'm really excited to wrench on it. https://i.imgur.com/Lf7tpks.jpeg
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'47 Fordor
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Check and clean all connections, esp ground connections, ensuring nice shiny surface where cable grounds to frame etc.
 
'47 Fordor, got it. Thanks for the clarification!

Alright I'll start cleaning off all of the connections. You think that could be part of it, just not letting enough power to the starter and the spark plugs?
 
CA Victoria said:
Check and clean all connections, esp ground connections, ensuring nice shiny surface where cable grounds to frame etc.
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Yes, clean every battery cable connection on both ground and hot sides every place they connect to the battery, frame, body, engine and starter. It definitely sounds like a connection problem. Make sure the engine has a proper ground cable.

Something else you can do is check voltage at the battery terminals while it is cranking, then check voltage at the starter while cranking. If the voltage isn't nearly the same, there is a connection problem somewhere or the solenoid has a bad internal contact.


OH yes...That car's a beauty! Congratulations.



Terry
 
That makes perfect sense to me. All stuff I can easily do with a simple voltmeter and getting the car properly raised (to get at some of the connections that are better handled from the bottom).
 
Nice looking ‘47, you might have a bad solenoid, also I can’t stress enough about clean tight connections with a 6 volt system. Make sure the correct gauge cable are used for the starter and grounds.
 
Oof. I pulled off the positive and negative wires to give the connections a good shine and the edge of the firewall bolt for the positive terminal is now sheered off so I can't reconnect.

Is there an alternative place I can connect the positive or do I need to just drill out the bolt and put a new one in its place?

https://i.imgur.com/fhmCqZi.jpg
 
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While your cleaning the connections, make sure that the battery cable are the 6 volt type. They are heavier than the 12 volt cables.

You can fasten the ground cable to any spot on the car, preferably the engine.
 
WOW. DOUBLE WOW. That is one GIGANTIC picture. I have not EVER been able to post a picture here. Much less one THAT big.

Now get to the point. Finally someone mentioned cable size. Puny 12V cables have no place on a 6V system. 86 them. Make up a set of cables out of welding cables.

If you are still 6V, + ground, you can ground anywhere to get it going, then drill out that old bolt later.

If you'da paid $5.00 more 'ya coulda gotten a red one.

Nice car. Enjoy.
 
The negative is 1 gauge wiring, but the positive is 4 gauge. Honestly it looks like a walmart set. I already have proper wiring in the mail.
 
Lawson Cox said:
WOW. DOUBLE WOW. That is one GIGANTIC picture. I have not EVER been able to post a picture here. Much less one THAT big.

Now get to the point. Finally someone mentioned cable size. Puny 12V cables have no place on a 6V system. 86 them. Make up a set of cables out of welding cables.

If you are still 6V, + ground, you can ground anywhere to get it going, then drill out that old bolt later.

If you'da paid $5.00 more 'ya coulda gotten a red one.

Nice car. Enjoy.
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Hahaha, I noticed how big the picture was and spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out how to make the pictures smaller. Apple doesn't make it easy. But hey, at least no detail is lost! You can see the rust molecules!
 
Squadron said:
Hahaha, I noticed how big the picture was and spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out how to make the pictures smaller. Apple doesn't make it easy. But hey, at least no detail is lost! You can see the rust molecules!
Click to expand...

"edge of the firewall bolt for the positive terminal is now sheered off so I can't reconnect."

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It really is way better to run the ground cable to somewhere on the block. For now an intake manifold bolt is good if the cable reaches. (They don't ever snap off) But you also want one from the block to the body and I always run another to the frame. Can't have too many! Not sure what others here think of this, but on grounds after clean and bright I use anti-sieze compound in the connection. And don't forget the two big wires at the solenoid.
 
Definitely run the big ground cable to the block...an intake manifold bolt works well. From there you can run a 10 gauge wire to the firewall and attach it with a good sheet metal screw and that will be enough to carry current through the body for lights, heater, etc.
 
If all else fails, it could also be a faulty starter. I have had my '51 since 1987, and it always started harder than I thought it should. Finally, last year, I had a chance to chase down the problem. I swapped in a known good starter, and the difference was amazing! It now spins over like 12 volts and starts immediately. (I am running a 6 volt Optima battery.)
 
That ground stud is quite crusty - it did you a favor by breaking.

Can you share pics of the engine bay? Diagnosis is helped with images. Do you know anything about other work the PO performed? Coil? Fuel system?...

Fine looking Fordor.
 
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that bolt that broke looks like it can be replaced by driving it in. look on inside to see if head is visible.
 
Awesome ideas, everyone. Thanks so much. So I played with a lot of stuff over the past 12 hours or so... gathered a ton more information. I'm sharing an album of the engine bay, and all of the electrical connections I can find. I tried connecting that 6gauge wire up to the side of the bay (you'll see) but all it did was nearly melt the connector. It's definitely not big enough and not connected well enough to handle the power flowing through it.

I've got a strap in the mail for the positive wire, and that's an excellent idea about connecting it up to the engine itself. There's already a ground strap from the engine to the firewall, I just might have to clean it a bit.

Speaking of cleaning off electrical stuff - I've just been using some generic cleaner. Is there any actual difference between various cleaners (carb, electrical, etc). I know NONE of it should touch paint or anything I really care about (like my skin), but aside from that is it worth picking up all of it?

https://imgur.com/a/b6fOX1M
 
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