Oil filter adapter plate- leaking AGAIN...

[Tom in TN]

Morning y’all… Basics and background. 1955 Town sedan w/272. Overhauled at 56,000 miles (2009). Installed the adapter plate set up in 2009 and had no issue with it for the next 12 years. Not a drip. Then suddenly, it started leaking like a pig. I fixed it and it started spewing again, so I fixed it again, and now it is leaking / pouring again.
I have a good, thick adapter plate from ebay and the center is raised about 1/8” off the deck. I lapped the outer rim to make sure it was flat and used the fibre gasket. No sealer…everybody seemed to be so down on it…
I know there have been multiple threads on this subject and I read most of them, but I don’t recall anyone explaining WHY we shouldn’t use sealer on the adapter plate to block surface.
I have some outstanding MOPAR sealer that I sealed my 700R4 trans pan with and it stopped the leaking.
Can anyone tell me something that would change my mind about using a good sealer on this dang thing?

 

[GLAmes]

I don't see any problem using it between the adapter and the block. If it doesn't work you can always scrape it off.

 

[blucar]

I have a oil filter adapter plate for the Y's that came off of a 64 292 that i had for over 500k, several rebuilds.
I don't recall what the gasket between the block and the adapter plate looked like, it was what-ever came in a overhaul gasket set. I can assure you that the only sealer I would have uses would have been Gasket-Cinch, I don't have much uses for silicon type sealers..

Did you put LOCKTITE tread sealer on the mounting fastener and torque it to the factory setting? Could be the 'Fastener bolt" is coming loose when the filter is changed

 

[Tom in TN]

"Did you put LOCKTITE tread sealer on the mounting fastener and torque it to the factory setting? Could be the 'Fastener bolt" is coming loose when the filter is changed"

blucar - I did not use Loctite and I have no idea what the factory torque should be on the center bolt ( anybody know, please tell me) but I haven't been able to keep it from leaking long enough to even need to change the dang oil...so, no, it ain't coming loose during an oil change Good thoughts, tho- thank you guys

 

[dmsfrr]

I don't see any problem using it between the adapter and the block. If it doesn't work you can always scrape it off.

I can't think of why a good sealer is a bad idea, unless too much is used and it clogs something up.
Several yrs ago when I first got my rebuilt 292 with spin-on filter adapter back from the machine shop they had used a sealer on the adapter gasket.
For whatever reason the rubber gasket blew out the first time the engine started.
I put in a new/replacement filter adapter set (with a rubber gasket but no sealer) and it blew out the following week.
The original harder fiber style gasket may be the better way to go. But you said you tried one.

At that time I replaced the filter adapter with a machined aluminum version that uses an O-ring. 3000+ miles and it's fine so far.
If you can't get the original style to quit leaking and are fed up enough to pay the price there is a vendor on ebay selling them. They were unavailable for a couple years.
It is not the same seller I bought from and the price is higher.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265705014537?hash=item3ddd40c509:g:ED0AAOSwbm1ih-EM
.

 

[KULTULZ]

Is the adapter OEM FORD (B7A 6882-A) NOS or CHINESIUM?

Is the gasket a good quality (BEST - FEL-PRO) or CHINESIUM?

Another Y-Block quirk has to do with the oil filter. The engines built later in the production cycle went to a spin-on, but the blocks are all cast and machined the same. Of course, what this means is there’s an adapter used. Unless your customer is planning a concours-type restoration, the spin-on oil filter is obviously the best deal, so you’ll want to use the spin-on oil filter adapter.

At first glance, it looks like a no-brainer, but that’s where some get into trouble. Years of unfortunate and messy experience have taught me to approach the subject with a specific (and proven) procedure. First, there is a flat impregnated paper gasket that seals between the block and the adapter plate. Never, ever, not even once or a little bit, should you use any kind of sealer or gasket material here. If you do it will almost certainly end up with the gasket pushed out and all the oil on the ground. Put it in dry.

Second, the plate has to be installed in only one way. Look closely and you’ll see where it is stamped “TOP.” This faces outward (I guess you could say that it is also the top), but the TOP script should also be at 12 o’clock or top as well. If not, the filter will drain dry in a very short time every time you shut the engine off. Obviously, you want oil to stay in the filter so you don’t start without oil – it’s hard on an engine.

Finally, the special threaded fitting that holds the plate on and allows the filter to spin on requires a 1-1/4˝ socket (thin-wall) and about 50 ft.lbs. of torque. The problem is that a good many of the sockets available are too thick and you won’t get a good grip. I finally broke down and bought a cheap 12-point socket and ground the outside edge until I could get a good grip on it. The first time I dealt with this I invented quite a few new four-letter words before I realized what was needed. My advice: fix yourself up with that socket when you tear it down.

SOURCE - ENGINE BUILDERS MAGAZINE

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2002/05/working-it-all-out-discovering-y-block-ford-tricks/

Also Read Here - http://www.y-blocksforever.com/tech/html/oil_filter.html

 

[KULTULZ]

it is not the same seller i bought from and the price is higher.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26570501453...0aaoswbm1ih-em.

Thanx! for that info ...

 

[miker98038]

IIRC, I use the gasket that comes with the oem replacement cartridge between the mounting plate and block. I use the old fashioned red lacquer like gasket sealer. Same thing I use on the valve cover to gasket side. Nothing between the block and adaptors (maybe a light coat white grease between the valve cover and head). This is more like contact cement, but it’s an engine product. Can’t remember the name, but it’s over at my buddy’s house. It stops any gasket from squeezing out or shifting. It’s a b to clean, so I only use it on removable items. Never the head or block

I had one time a leak developed and wouldn’t stop with the usual repair. Close inspection revealed a slight burr on the block. Smoothed that out, problem solved. Why it ran for years before leaking and then a new gasket wouldn’t fix it is still a mystery.

Edit. Permatex Indian Head gasket shellac. Knew it was something not pc now.

 

[Daves55Sedan]

Notice that there are several brands of spin-on filters listed to be used with the later y-blocks that had the adaptor plate.
But if you compare the gasket surface, some have a larger diameter than others and some barely mate fully with the flat surface of the adaptor plate.
Motorcraft #FL-1A is the best gasket fit for the adaptor plate.
Also, look for any little ding on the flat gasket surface of the adaptor plate. If there's a small dent, it will leak between plate and filter gasket. But with a flat, hard metal surface, a flat punch, hammer and brute force, you may be able to flatten the dent out.

 

[Tom in TN]

KULTULZ – IIRC it was a ford piece I got off ebay. I will check on this teardown and the gasket was fibre not rubber.
Dave, I blued and lapped the outer ring and don’t recall any dents..

Plan to tear it down today

 

[KULTULZ]

IIRC, I use the gasket that comes with the oem replacement cartridge between the mounting plate and block.

KULTULZ – IIRC it was a ford piece I got off ebay. I will check on this teardown and the gasket was fibre not rubber.

Correct. The FORD PN was EAA 6838-A and can be found on E-BAY frequently. It is the same gasket, filter can to old adapter and the gasket that comes in the adapter kit.

 

[Tom in TN]

Well, everything is off the car. The filter, the double-ended stud, the adapter and the gasket and I found things that I would not have believed, nor apparently, remembered.
The most obvious was when I put the strap wrench onto the filter and started removing the filter. The dang thing was just the other side of finger-tight..It started loosening as I was tightening the strap…unbelievable. I KNOW I had it tight when I put it on.
The second thing was the tightness of the adapter stud. I saw where someone said it should be torqued to 50 ft lbs…it MIGHT have been “torqued” to 10 ft lbs…maybe. Yet I remember putting some muscle to it when I put it in, but I did not Loctite it
And lastly, the dang gasket was…rubber...Does anyone have the Fel-Pro part number?
So, it looks like my biggest problem..is…ME…and my memory.
Also turned out that it is not a Ford Piece. I don’t think Ford would have put the word “TOP” down there at 8:00.
There are a bunch of things I am going to do differently this time and I cannot help but think the end result will be a non-leaking arrangement, for many years/miles to come.
Thank you all for your input and thoughts…I AM keeping notes.

 

[KULTULZ]

Does anyone have the Fel-Pro part number?

The original gasket (EAA 6838-A) is still available from NEW HOLLAND TRACTORS. If you have a dealer near you, you can get the correct one.

- https://www.madisontractor.com/eaa6838a-gasket-filter-mounting.html

The adapter being loose most likely led to the filter loosening. Good thing it didn't blow off.

You need a 1 1/4" 6PT THIN-WALL DEEP WELL SOCKET and QUALITY TORQUE WRENCH to cinch it down (50 ft.lb).

The hole in the adapter has to point upwards on install.

Maybe you have a hot cam shaking it loose ...

 

[miker98038]

This is not the first time I’ve heard of an adapter being marked “wrong” for “top”. The other was probably yblocksforever. Rotating it properly will let it work properly IIRC, as K stated above.

 

[KULTULZ]

Below is a photo showing better detail (if it will blow up).

I also came across the FORD INSTRUCTIONS for the kit and it calls for 25 ft.lbs.

... don't hate ...​

 

[Tom in TN]

OK, this beast is fixed and I do not believe I will ever find a leak here again- EVER. Why so, you say? Because I cheated and bought one of the home spun aluminum discs (thanks dmsfrr), yes, it is expensive, but to never have to crawl under there again- oh, yea, I'll pay.
Really, it is a nice piece. it came with torque instructions and the fit was perfect...and most importantly, it did not leak
But, check back with me in a couple of months.. LOL. Thank you to everyone who chimed in.
Ford Barn is the best!

 

[Daves55Sedan]

Back in the '70's, when my '55 still had the cannister and Purolator P-48 oil filter element, I used to coat the big round rubber gasket with fresh axle grease and stick it in the slot in the engine block to make it remain stationary while I screwed in the cannister center-bolt. The gasket never fell out because of the grease during cannister installation and it all squeezed out when I tightened the center-bolt.
When I swapped the cannister/element with the adaptor plate years later (somewhere around '85 or '86, I used the rubber gasket that came with a new P-4 filter element and treated it the same way as I had always done previously with the old cannister type. Again, the grease squeezed out and never leaked oil. It's still in there from last engine rebuild which was over 30 years ago.
BTW, I have never even seen a composite or paper gasket for these. The only ones I have ever seen are the rubber ones.