I'm not one to tell anybody how to run their business, but was this comment really necessary? "Patience Princess"?
Talk about demeaning to somebody who is one of the best in the world of high-performance flatheads. Peeing on his shoes accomplished nothing of value for anybody.
PS: I just referred a very close personal friend to you today (to make a custom radiator for a vintage car) - so I wish you (and him) well. With that said, it is hard for us on the Barn to stomach your attitude on this specific conversation.
1) Fans, Fans, Fans: Explain to me how a better fan is going to help his cooling at cruise speed? All this talk about pushers/pullers, CFM this, CFM that - what the heck does it have to do with a car going down the road at 50 mph? I've yet to hear an explanation that is viable - so bring it to the table?
2) Why We're All on the Barn: The fact is that most everybody on this forum is here to HELP one another. None of us have all the answers - so we try to work through problems and seek out solutions. At the same time, this body of folks has more expertise on vintage flathead engines than any public place you'll find. Joe came here for help - he seems to be willing to work through issues . . . that is why we care about his problems and hope that a solution is found.
What we've not heard from you is the fact that MAYBE his radiator won't cool his engine . . . and that you're willing to work with him to sort it out. THAT would be good for Joe, good for Brassworks and we'd all say that "Lee is a solid dude and he compromised for the good of all". Wouldn't that be a good position to be in?
All we're hearing is that everything is Joe's fault . . . while he may not be perfect (none are), those of us with experience have reasonable suspicions about the ability of THIS particular radiator to cool his engine - regardless of any dang fan you put on it. If the core/capacity of the radiator is not up to the task - there is NOTHING that any fan will do to help it. So, WHAT can he do to figure out the basics? Me - I'd take ALL fans off and take the car on the road . . . remove those variables.
Work with him, work with us . . . let's get him a "cool car" going down the road.
What is so hard about finding a solution FIRST, then determining how best to pay for it.
Apologies for the Patience Princess response. I don't know Ronnieroadster other than his comments on this thread. I was in the middle of a phone call, typing and getting a payroll finalized. He was flaming on a forum and I should have just ignored him because his comment wasn't relevant.
Joe's principal concern is occurring at high speed e.g. 60mph and the recovery at 50-40 mph. I have said it and said it and said it again.
It is not the fans that I suspect, its the shroud. The shroud manufacturer suspects the same because they recommended Joe remove the plastic trim core area blocking the core, raise the fan and vent the solid parts of the fan shroud. I go a step further and say remove the shroud entirely. You should keep a fan (puller recommended, pusher if you can't fit one) because you need it when you come of the highway and this is exactly where Joe is not recovering e.g. heat soaking. The absence a fan will create a problem at ~38-40 mph and below because of limited airflow. What I recommend regarding fans is maximizing cfm however, I am dubious of many of the claims made by electric fan manufacturers which is why I only recommend SPAL. He may get the cfm with his cooling components fan and no shroud or he may get there with the flex-a-lite puller or he may get there with a combination of a SPAL pusher and a puller. Its not the brand but the maximum cfm that matters
at the speed where he is not recovering.
I have been working with Joe on the phone and messaging on instagram. Presently he is removing the fan and shroud and trying a different one. This removal of the fan I recommended but he is spending more money without gathering information first. This again is his decision.
The reason you don't hear me say its the radiator core is that he has not removed the shroud, what I suspect is the root of problem yet and provided numbers. Until he reports back, I can speak to the radiator and this engine .
The face area of a 1935 Ford radiator is ~379 square inches. A 1951 ford radiator face area is ~440 square inches and a 1951 Mercury is ~475. Joe's pairing of this engine to this radiator space sacrifices 14% - 20% of face area right out of the gate because of the engine - car design.
The core Joe ordered was thicker than the '51 but it has 90% of the cubic area of the '51 radiator and ~80% of '51 Mercury. The core he ordered also has has more tubes, better geometry of tube and a comparable fin density. In a nutshell, he is one step backward and a little bit forward but Joe also added heat demands with his supercharger and has "unknown" demands from tinkering with the engine timing, thermostats, fluid composition etc. Perhaps this is where Ronnieroadster can help him.
Joe and I discussed engine temperatures and ranges and Joe tells me he would accept a 200 degree top end on his 51 flathead with a supercharger. I think this is reasonable expectation and achievable. I know we all want 180 degrees all the time but the reality is engines operate at a range and the high and low end and both ends matter. It is also a reality that there are numerous engine temperatures on the engine so you may cause an undue concern based on where you take the temperature from. Settle down forum, I am not saying Joe's concern is undue. He is seeing 210 and wants 200. He is 10 degrees from being satisfied with his upper bound engine temperature and I think he can get there without a new core or buying more fans (which he keeps doing). I am also more interested in the 50-40mph temperatures because this will trigger recommendation 2, the addition of more cfm for recovery. Joe says he will not do this, again, his decision.
I think he's closer to his goal than he realizes but as told him, I don't think he is going to be a 180 degree flathead based on the pairing and mods he has made and he agreed.
