mercman from oz
Well-known member
Unique Tail Lights on the 59 Mercurys
Hello
- Thread starter Stephenorf
- Start date
Unique Tail Lights on the 59 Mercurys
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Someone cut a big chunk out of the driver's side inner fender apron to fit the brake proportioning valve.
... hmmph ...
Does it have a FRONT DISC BRAKE CONVERSION?
Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
You shouldn't have any problems getting engine gaskets and peripheral parts (generator, carburator, distributor, fuel pump and filters, etc, but cosmetic stuff may be difficult to find.
All true. I can remember as a little kid in the mid and late 1960's how out-of-fashion cars made from the later 1950's to the early 1960's were. Many fans of old cars conveniently forget about that today. There were a few exceptions, like '57 Chevies and early Thunderbirds, but it was basically true of most other cars. Nevertheless, by about the mid 1970's, cars from the 1950's came back in style with the nostalgia craze, and have never really lost their appeal since then. The late 1950's represent a time that's appealing to a lot of people, at least in terms of car styling. The industry felt it had a license to be as outrageous as it wanted to be.
Today's market for old cars is hard to understand. Cool vehicles like your Monterey go for a fair bit of money, but they're still way less than a '57 Chevy Bel Air. That's actually good for all of us who don't want to spend 40 grand for an old car from the '50's.
Stephenorf
Senior Member
... hmmph ...
Does it have a FRONT DISC BRAKE CONVERSION?
No, looks like drum brakes all around. I suppose then it isn't a proportioning valve, more like a distribution block. Its mounted on a bracket that's bolter to inside of the the driver's side front frame rail, just below the master cylinder.
Here's a pic. You can see where the fender apron is all cut away (outlined in red).
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
No, looks like drum brakes all around. I suppose then it isn't a proportioning valve, more like a distribution block. Its mounted on a bracket that's bolter to inside of the the driver's side front frame rail, just below the master cylinder.
Here's a pic. You can see where the fender apron is all cut away (outlined in red).
Now that is gnarly ...
It is a COMBINATION VALVE. I can see the METERING VALVE (FRT) and the center is a PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL VALVE. I can only a$$-u-me it also has a PROPORTIONING VALVE (PPV) along with a DISC/DRUM MC.
Someone must have been planning on a FRT DISC SWAP. That setup is possibly going to get you into trouble at some point.
Stephenorf
Senior Member
Now that is gnarly ...
It is a COMBINATION VALVE. I can see the METERING VALVE (FRT) and the center is a PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL VALVE. I can only a$$-u-me it also has a PROPORTIONING VALVE (PPV) along with a DISC/DRUM MC.
Someone must have been planning on a FRT DISC SWAP. That setup is possibly going to get you into trouble at some point.
Please elaborate on the impending doom or all around headache I can expect with this setup. It doesn't look newly installed, but when I saw it I was curious about the conversion, especially when I saw the hack job on the fender apron. I would a**ume it is a takeoff from some late(ish) model donor car. I was kind of impressed that someone was even able to do this. I know a lot of the older cars have single reservoir master cylinders, In I consider a dual bowl setup preferable over single pot.
dmsfrr
Well-known member
I make no claim to be a brake system plumber. This is just a 'sight unseen' first guess.
Assuming the car originally had a single bowl master cylinder, someone changed it to a dual bowl master cylinder.
Not necessarily a bad idea but they used one that looks to be from a front disc / rear drum application. (the fluid bowls aren't the same size) If so, it would be incorrect in a 'drum brakes all around' vehicle because the front to rear pressure balance will be all wrong. They apparently attempted to fix their mistake but only compounded it by installing a compensating / proportioning valve.
Following the k.i.s.s principle... a better solution would be to use a more correct drum/drum master cylinder and eliminate the compensating/proportioning valve.
IMO, an as-original single bowl brake setup with new or properly rebuilt parts would be much safer than what a previous owner has done.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
... whew ...
1) The MC style is INCORRECT (DISC/DRUM on a DRUM/DRUM car) ...
2) A PPV (PRORTIONING VALVE) and in this case a COMBINATION VALVE is not used on FORD DRUM/DRUM ...
3) The METERING VALVE holds off front brake pressure (DISC) until the rear brakes (DRUM) have a chance to apply (@ approx 30 lb line pressure) ...
4) The PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL VALVE (PDV) (free standing) can (and should) be used on a drum/drum application w a DUAL RESVR DRUM/DRUM MC ...
5) The PROPORTIONING VALVE (PPV) is used on a DISC/DRUM to gradually limit rear DRUM BRAKE line pressure so as to prevent rear wheel lockup as the FRONT DISC becomes overly aggressive at high line pressure leading to rear brake lock-up.
6) You need to know what year the system came off of as a system later than 1971 will not have a RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE (RPV) in the drum circuit.
7) If you are considering going to a DISC/DRUM setup, the present system may be OK. If going to stay with four wheel drum, it is a good way to get hurt and invite a civil lawsuit (IMO).
Stephenorf
Senior Member
This may be true (single bowl better that what I have now). But I don't have the original brake components, so my best course of action will be to replace the master cylinder with a compatible dual bowl system with a built in residual valve. Any suggestions on what might be the best unit to swap in there?
Stephenorf
Senior Member
I'm no brake expert, but it looked pretty hokey to me when I first saw it, but I thought maybe it was just a weird retro-fit for some junk yard setup that happened to be available to the PO.
Let's see - point for point so I don't get lost:
1: ok, I need a MC with two same-sized bowls.
2: so this concoction can be ditched whenever I replace the MC with a proper Drum/Drum unit? (more questions regarding the replacement MC below)
3, 4 & 5: So the combination valve I have has a built in Metering Valve, Proportioning Valve (PPV) and a Pressure Differential Valve (PDV)? Again, I'll toss the unit when I get a correct Drum/Drum MC installed.
If I buy a new MC, will it come with the needed valve(s) built-in, or is this something I should expect to have to add to the circuit?
6: I've heard of some MC with a built in Residual Pressure Valve. Any suggestions on a MC that might be a good fit for the 1959 Mercury Monterey? I've heard that early Maverick MC have the build in residual valve and work on Mustangs, not sure about old Mercuries.
7: No, I'll stay with all drum brakes for now. I don't have any plans to modify the braking system, except now it seems I will be changing out the MC for a more suitable Drum/Drum unit.
Lastly, for this drum/drum setup, I need a dual bowl MC with bowls the same size, a Residual Pressure Valve and a Pressure Differential Valve? Whew...
Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
If you are going to stick with front and rear drums, why not use a '57 thru '59 Ford bronze junction block and ditch that monstrosity and that tubing. You can keep your original one-hole master cylinder if it is still good, replace it with duplicate of original or rebuilt one if not. I'd run new tubing from master cylinder down to the new bronze junction block and new tubing/hoses from junction block to wheel cylinders unless the existing ones are known to be fairly young and fit the junction block. I might also cut out a piece of 1/8" thick rubber to fit in between that nasty fender well cutout and the car frame so that water won't splash on your junction block and tubing and corrode all your fitting connections.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
You need DRUM/DRUM MC if you are going to DUAL RESERVOIR.
Yes, all can be removed.
If you buy a new current aftermarket MC, it will most likely not have the valves. FORD dropped the valves in 1971-72 and all MC's after that had no valves unless it was a direct service replacement (those days are gone).
You would have to add 2 #10 valves in-line (one on each circuit).
The SGL RSVR MC had the valve internally. The DUAL RSVR MC had the valves on the output ports.
You will need two inline PRESSURE RESIDUAL VALVES, one for each circuit. The PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL VALVE is optional.
The MERC should have self-adjusting brakes so it should stop well with either MC design.