Can't get engine started after changing timing gear

For future reference, and this pertains to anybody who is working on a Model A, change one thing at a time.
 
Just FYI, I've seen it happen where timing the Nu-Rex upper plate with the Nu-Rex wrench produces the wrong timing. Not severely wrong, just slightly off. It happened because the plate positions the points at a slightly different angle from stock.
 
nkaminar said:
For future reference, and this pertains to anybody who is working on a Model A, change one thing at a time.
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Earlier this year I changed the valves, head, carb, plugs, and distributor at the same time. Felt like winning the lottery when the engine fired up.
 
The wireless 'modern' upper plate is troublesome. They are fine if a wire is added.
Check for voltage to the open point arm, should about 6v.
Check for voltage when the points are closed, should be 0v
Make sure the points power lead is connected correctly and not open or grounded.
Same for condenser lead.
The primary cable insulation could be bad and grounding, and, it could be screwed in too far and grounding.
There could be a problem with terminal box wiring, jumper across the terminals.
Sometimes a key switch can ground against the fuel tank.
 
I'm with nkaminar here .............. one thing at a time. While we all have good intentions, continuing to focus on other than the original problem (or operation) may be problematic. Start at the source. The car ran OK but the timing gear was coming apart. Back to that operation first. Yes, I know the orientation of the cam & crank gears appear to have been checked several times, one more time is not anything but time well spent. As they say on cop shows ........... "Sorry, we have to ask these questions to eliminate you as a suspect."

Rather than coming up with more things to work on, it's often more prudent to work backwards to eliminate problems that might have come up along the way. So, first on the list here is changing the cam gear. Once that is eliminated, put back the carburetor the car ran on BEFORE changing the cam gear. Next thing to attend to is points and condenser .............. and so on down the line. One thing at a time, with nothing new thrown into the mix unless there is something wrong or questionable with a specific item. And, if you do replace something, don't do it with an item you just happen to have laying around but don't really know the condition of. We're up to 3 different carburetors in this case with no assurance that any of them are any better than each other. The car ran on carburetor #1 before changing the cam gear. Put that carburetor back on and leave it on. Proceed from there with assurances of quality instead of guesswork fixes.

Good luck, Bob Bader
 
I’ve just read all the comments. I’m agonna say the trouble lies with the NuRex and modern points, and suggest you pull all that out and install an original distributor with original type upper and lower plates and new points and condensor. Before you throw money in that direction, see if you can borrow a known good dissy, and swap it out with your modern system. If you have a local Model A club find someone there who can help. Keep us informed.
 
bobbader said:
We're up to 3 different carburetors in this case with no assurance that any of them are any better than each other. The car ran on carburetor #1 before changing the cam gear. Put that carburetor back on and leave it on. Proceed from there with assurances of quality instead of guesswork fixes.

Good luck, Bob Bader
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I was in the middle of testing the carbs when the timing gear broke. The Tillotson was not working right when driving around before and after. I left it on and was able to start the engine but driving the car around was problematic. So I switched to the Zenith carbs to see if that made a difference. It did not, if anything it made things worse. I switched back to the Tillotson, and the car does not start even with that one on. So.... I don't think the issue are the carbs or fuel flow because none of them worked (unless they are all bad).
 
700rpm said:
I’ve just read all the comments. I’m agonna say the trouble lies with the NuRex and modern points, and suggest you pull all that out and install an original distributor with original type upper and lower plates and new points and condensor. Before you throw money in that direction, see if you can borrow a known good dissy, and swap it out with your modern system. If you have a local Model A club find someone there who can help. Keep us informed.
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Yes I believe it is indeed the electrical system, and likely the distributor. I will be putting everything back together later today and we will go from there.


I just want my car back. 40 years ago when I drove it all the time, it run great and was almost major maintenance free.
 
Jump the ampmeter I have had two cars with the same problem . The first one years ago the second one a few weeks ago so I had forgotten the first . I had changed everything as you have took hours of my time as we were getting his coupe ready for the Pendine speed week . Bad starting etc etc eventually died with still 300 miles to go in a biblical cloud burst . By passed the ampmeter with a jumper from the alternator to the fuse on the starter and back in business . At the next service station with no rain dropped the dash and connected both wires to the same terminal . Checked the USA made meter later and found intermittent continuity .

John in Suffolk County England .
 
john charlton said:
Jump the ampmeter I have had two cars with the same problem . The first one years ago the second one a few weeks ago so I had forgotten the first . I had changed everything as you have took hours of my time as we were getting his coupe ready for the Pendine speed week . Bad starting etc etc eventually died with still 300 miles to go in a biblical cloud burst . By passed the ampmeter with a jumper from the alternator to the fuse on the starter and back in business . At the next service station with no rain dropped the dash and connected both wires to the same terminal . Checked the USA made meter later and found intermittent continuity .

John in Suffolk County England .
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Thank you John, I did that, Now I need to test the ammeter out and see if I need a new one.:)
 
SUCCESS! At least partially.

Let me give a caveat here.

I was able to get the engine started and it sounds pretty. The engine idles quietly and smoothly, in fact the best since we shipped it here to New York from Spokane, and since I drove it 40 plus years ago. I went through every thing and discovered it had no spark from the coil-to-distributor wire. All the perfunctory voltages check out at 6.3 V +-. I then looked at the points using an indicator light which I connected from ground to the points arm in the distributor. It stayed on with no flickering as the engine turned. Volla, the points were not completely closing on the low spot of the cam. Yes yes yes, a rookie mistake, but I am still behind the learning curve. I adjusted the points and it fired right up.


The reason I say this is a partial success is because I still have the sputtering issue. I think I will start a new thread for that. Before I do that, I will make sure the timing is okay and the carburetors are okay. At least it starts up and idles beautifully. Obviously, I will be making some fine tweaks and re-double checking everything.


Bill
 
john charlton said:
I have had this identical problem and did all what you have done . It finally turned to be a faulty ampmeter which had an intermittent open circuit and sometimes voltage drop across it . A roadside breakdown was cured by dropping the dash and connecting both ampmeter wires to the same terminal , an instant fix . The ampmeter was replaced later . The meter was an older USA unit not offshore . We had been working on the car with no electrical involvement so just a coincidence maybe the same with you . A quick job to jump the meter give it a whirl .

John in heavy rain Suffolk County England .
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Curious, does it matter what side of the meter post that you attach both wires to?

I also don't understand. What is actually happening when you join both wires on a single post?
 
old31 said:
Curious, does it matter what side of the meter post that you attach both wires to?

I also don't understand. What is actually happening when you join both wires on a single post?
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You're just bypassing the ammeter in the circuit. Moving one wire from its post to the other post (doesn't matter which) will route the current straight from one wire to another, so if the ammeter is the source of the problem, that will cure it.
 
philcobill said:
SUCCESS! At least partially.

Let me give a caveat here.

I was able to get the engine started and it sounds pretty. The engine idles quietly and smoothly, in fact the best since we shipped it here to New York from Spokane, and since I drove it 40 plus years ago. I went through every thing and discovered it had no spark from the coil-to-distributor wire. All the perfunctory voltages check out at 6.3 V +-. I then looked at the points using an indicator light which I connected from ground to the points arm in the distributor. It stayed on with no flickering as the engine turned. Voila, the points were not completely closing on the low spot of the cam. Yes yes yes, a rookie mistake, but I am still behind the learning curve. I adjusted the points and it fired right up.

The reason I say this is a partial success is because I still have the sputtering issue. I think I will start a new thread for that. Before I do that, I will make sure the timing is okay and the carburetors are okay. At least it starts up and idles beautifully. Obviously, I will be making some fine tweaks and re-double checking everything.
Bill
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I congratulate you on your success. I like your approach with a new thread for the sputtering.

I bought my coupe at the beginning of March and it took 2 months to get it to run right. So frustrating. It has now been running nearly every day, 40-140 mile drives and has 2848 miles on it. Keep the faith and read everything on this forum multiple times.

Once, during my debacle, I had my points maladjusted to the extreme of not closing at the low sections of the cam.

When you do finally get the engine running (you will) and are driving the car, recheck your point gap at 50, 100, 200, 500 miles and keep the distributor cam lubricated. I failed to do this as warned and nearly got stranded. (the point arm was about to ground on the cam) My points were at .011 when I checked after 250-300 miles. They wear fast at first, then stabilize. I replaced those points and followed the above warnings and yep, they seem to have stopped wearing so rapidly after a few hundred miles.

Good luck to ya, and go Ford Barn!
 
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As I read through all of this, junk in the fuel tank and check the rotor button kept going through my mind. Now that it is running, though poorly, it seems the fuel supply is OK but I'd like to see you try a known good rotor button. They are notorious for shorting to earth and you can't see where. Ask me how I know.
 
It's been my experience, on a few occasions, when the rotor fails the engine won't run at all.
 
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