Steering Box 7 tooth vs 2 Tooth vs F100

Model A Ron

Model A Ron

Well-known member
I have a 7 tooth that is worn out and I am looking for opinions from people who have fully restored 7 tooth, 2 tooth and F100 Steering box. What is the best option for a driver?
 
It depends entirely on your priorities. How are you weighing:
  • cost
  • resale value
  • ease of steering
  • ease of installation
  • authenticity/stock appearance
 
The first modification I did to my '31 was put in the F100 box. I'm setting up my car to be a weekly driver, and the stock steering, the 2 tooth, reminded me of my youth when I drove row crop tractors...it just was too much work to be fun. Now the car is much more fun to drive, and unless you're an expert, you cannot tell the difference as everything but the box itself is still stock. Honestly, it looks the same to me, and the electrical switching hooks up at the bottom the same too. The cost is a factor tho', as I bought from Randy Gross at about $800.

steering box.jpg




Tom
 
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In the 50+ years I’ve owned my 1930 Model A, I’ve rebuilt the 2-tooth steering 3 times - most recently 9 months ago.

With this most recent rebuild, I replaced the sector, bearings and races. I replaced the sector housing with a new one with needle bearings and a modern o-ring seal. I also installed a shorter pitman arm. The results are the best steering this car has ever had - tight and very easy to steer.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Jim
 
kawagumby said:
The first modification I did to my '31 was put in the F100 box. I'm setting up my car to be a weekly driver, and the stock steering, the 2 tooth, reminded me of my youth when I drove row crop tractors...it just was too much work to be fun. Now the car is much more fun to drive, and unless you're an expert, you cannot tell the difference as everything but the box itself is still stock. Honestly, it looks the same to me, and the electrical switching hooks up at the bottom the same too. The cost is a factor tho', as I bought from Randy Gross at about $800.

View attachment 460630
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Conaway2 said:
In the 50+ years I’ve owned my 1930 Model A, I’ve rebuilt the 2-tooth steering 3 times - most recently 9 months ago.

With this most recent rebuild, I replaced the sector, bearings and races. I replaced the sector housing with a new one with needle bearings and a modern o-ring seal. I also installed a shorter pitman arm. The results are the best steering this car has ever had - tight and very easy to steer.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Jim
Click to expand...

How muck play in the wheel with the rebuilt 2 tooth?

Ron
 
The steering box that came with my pickup (2-tooth) had 6-8 inches play in it. No amount of adjustment could get it out. Being "new" to the Model A world, I searched for options. 1) Rebuild my box, 2) The F100 box. 3) The new E-Z Steer box offered by John Kovar. I didn't do an adequate job of researching the plusses and minuses of each of these options, I fell for John Kovar's hype. I bought his box and installed it only to have it crap out only after a couple of months. Of course John's "lifetime guarantee" wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I then went to my second choice, the F100 conversion. It's been 10+ years now and I couldn't be happier with this unit.
 
I have rebuilt several of all three types of steering boxes. In one car I have a 2 tooth box with short pitman arm and teflon steering tie rod cups. It steers as easy as one of my other cars with a F100 box.
With all NOS or top quality new parts the 2 tooth box can be rebuilt to function like new with zero play. Using the teflon cups, the steering balls to be perfectly round and requires polishing to a mirror like finish. With a short pitman arm it will steer equally as easy as the F100.
I have never been able to rebuild a 7 tooth box with zero play. Usually end up with approximately 1 inch play.
 
So the comments over the years for F100 vs 2 tooth after close to 20 years of peoples comments online.

When not moving the F100 is easier to steer. When moving you cant tell the difference.

Here like in most cases for the A there seems to be a difference from a rebuilt 2 tooth and a properly rebuilt 2 tooth. A properly rebuilt and properly lubricated 2 tooth does quite fine for most people. Once rebuilt it just lasts a long time.

Honestly, it takes some careful effort and access to special tools to properly rebuild either a bushing based or bearing based 2 tooth. BTW, there is nothing wrong with a well fitted bushing based sector. Some reputable shops only do the needle bearings.

I can not speak for 7 tooth.
 
Model A Ron said:
I have 3.5 to 4 inches of play in my 7 tooth. How much play do you have in the F100 box?

Ron
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Virtually none. I see front wheel movement as soon as I turn the steering wheel.

Keven in NJ said he can't feel a difference between the stock box and the F100 while moving, but I can. At low speeds typical of residential turns and such, and maneuvering out of driveways...the difference in steering ratio is apparent to me.

Tom
 
kawagumby said:
Virtually none. I see front wheel movement as soon as I turn the steering wheel.

Keven in NJ said he can't feel a difference between the stock box and the F100 while moving, but I can. At low speeds typical of residential turns and such, and maneuvering out of driveways...the difference in steering ratio is apparent to me.

Tom
Click to expand...

I know the F100 box is not original but it is a Ford box and it's ez to steer.....that's a big plus for a car that's a driver.

I have never seen a 7 tooth or 2 tooth with less than an inch of play. Most of the guys in my local club all have 3 or more inches of play and they just live with it. In my opinion that much play is a safety issue when going over 20 mph.

Ron
 
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Kevin in NJ said:
So the comments over the years for F100 vs 2 tooth after close to 20 years of peoples comments online.

When not moving the F100 is easier to steer. When moving you cant tell the difference.

Here like in most cases for the A there seems to be a difference from a rebuilt 2 tooth and a properly rebuilt 2 tooth. A properly rebuilt and properly lubricated 2 tooth does quite fine for most people. Once rebuilt it just lasts a long time.

Honestly, it takes some careful effort and access to special tools to properly rebuild either a bushing based or bearing based 2 tooth. BTW, there is nothing wrong with a well fitted bushing based sector. Some reputable shops only do the needle bearings.

I can not speak for 7 tooth.
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But how do you define reputable? I have probably rebuilt a half dozen steering sectors that were converted to needle bearings and failed. I definitely would not recommend them for use by my customers.

The biggest issue is when you check the hardness of a reproduction sector, it cannot stand up to the tiny surface area that a needle bearing provides. A bushing is the preferred method of support on a slow turning shaft. More surface area to disperse the forces. This can be drawn out forever but when folks compare a worn or improperly adjusted 2-tooth steering gearbox to a modern gearbox and make claims the modern is better for touring, it really is not comparing apples-to-apples.



To comment on Ron's questions, why not just go ahead and convert the car to power steering? In the Horseless Carriage world, some are using the power steering cylinder from a Ford 2000 series tractor conversion kit, and using Chevrolet Cavalier power steering pump with a remote reservoir to power it. This allows the brass-era big cars to be driven easier by more aged drivers.
 
I have the F100 in both my cars and love it. You can turn the wheel with one hand sitting still.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
. . . why not just go ahead and convert the car to power steering? In the Horseless Carriage world, some are using the power steering cylinder from a Ford 2000 series tractor conversion kit, and using Chevrolet Cavalier power steering pump with a remote reservoir to power it. This allows the brass-era big cars to be driven easier by more aged drivers.
Click to expand...

This would be an interesting mod. Has this been written up anywhere?
 
CarlG said:
This would be an interesting mod. Has this been written up anywhere?
Click to expand...

I doubt it. It is kinda like when we put electric starters on early brass cars in that no two are alike, so we engineer & fabricate as we go. An article would just be more about showing that it can be done instead of a 'how-to' tutorial.

Also, I feel the two are done for differing reasons on the HCCA cars vs. a Model-A. When you are speaking of pre-teen 35-40+ horsepower vehicles, those are cars with big engines and primitive steering. When you consider a big 500+ cubic inch engine is difficult at best for aging motorists to hand crank before driving, they need assistance just for their health. Therefore we retrofit an electric starter and fab a ring gear for the flywheel that does not harm the originality. The same for adding power assisted steering on those cars which are hard to maneuver for elderly drivers. IMO a Model-A steers well enough with a properly rebuilt original-type steering gearbox where there really is no need for power assist or retrofitted gearboxes.
 
F100 steering boxes in RHD don't exist, as far as I know. I've never heard of them and 2 tooth steering boxes are not easy to find, even rare so over here, almost everybody runs a 7 tooth. A properly rebuilt 7 tooth steering box is just fine. When I converted my Tudor to RHD, I put in a 7 tooth. There was NO play in the wheel when I did it but now, after about 15-20,000 miles, it has about 1-1 1/2" play and is still a pleasure to drive.
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing to consider would be how original do you want it to look.
 
I think the retrofitted gearbox is a problem-solver for many of us...you can get them already rebuilt and setup for your car, the steering is easier - not just for the aged among us, LOL, as many of us are still very active, even strong physically, but have gotten to a point where we just want to be able to relax some while driving. I just visited a neighbor yesterday who has an absolutely beautiful '38 chevy with the ubiquitous 350 cu.in.X 350 ****** combo. I saw it for the first time last week, yet he's had it for years. Why? He admitted that no power steering just makes driving it a chore.
 
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